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  1. #9061
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts! Theyíre hypothetical facts to so canít discuss it unless youíre ready to get belittled and berated .
    Canít speak in hypotheticals around here bro.

    They didnít sell in 2017 so we apparently need to completely forgive them. Weíre supposed to assume the farm is stocked Through only the draft even though only 1 player is going to be ready to come up this year.

    Oh and they couldnít have picked Pearson a few picks earlier had they not received the comp pick from the loss of enc. I still donít understand why but apparently thatís a thing that is insane to suggest.
    You were berated, belittled and called insane?

  2. #9062
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Iím as excited about the core 4 as the next guy. Theyíre gonna be fun to watch for at least the next 6 seasons.
    The rest of the team is in complete shambles though.
    Pearson is not going to turn the franchise around by himself.

    This is after many years for this FO.

    But at least we get to enjoy a lame duck FA spending spree lol.
    4 years of this FO with only 1 being a rebuild. I know you like to say the rebuild started in 2017 but that just isnít true. Shapiro has even come out and said that himself.

    I also donít get your lame duck spending spree comment? Wasnít it you who said they canít win the AL East by only building through the draft? Now thereís talk of them exploring FA and trade yet you want to **** on that as well? You donít really have a stance on what you want these guys to do. After all, you said you wanted them to blow it up after 2016 but then later said you wanted them to make trades in 2017 that could extend the window. You just love to hate these guys lol.

    Look at the Astros in 2014 and 2015. Traded for guys like Marisnick, Fowler, Fiers, Carlos Gomez and Gattis. Signed guys like Lowrie, Neshek and Harris. Are any of those guys ďcoreĒ players? No, but some of them were on the WS roster. Guess what also happened. In some of those trades names like Mike Foltynewicz and Josh Hader went the other way. They also lost JD Martinez for nothing in free agency. A lot of mistakes were made because thatís literally what happens in every rebuild.

  3. #9063
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I think we are 4 everyday positional players away.
    They all need to be able to contribute in their own way, but At Least 1 of those additions (Maybe 2 depending on LGjr) needs to be a perennial 40hr type hitter. Rn, vlad is the only player I can assume is that type of guy.

    I think we need 3 pitchers, 2 of them with Ace potential.
    Yes I fully understand that Pearson will be in the ML next season.

    We need an all new BP imo, at least 2 of them consistent lights out/strike out 8th/9th guys. Looking at Giles history with both injuries and performance... Iím really struggling to picture him being a top closer in 3 years when we could be ready to contend.
    Thatís a lot of good arms that we need.
    Whatís a better time to get started than now? They wonít get it all this off-season but they can start chipping away. I also wouldnít put any merit into the LGJ trade rumours. I posted Scott Mitchellís follow up tweet and itís pretty clear heís just blowing hot air.

  4. #9064
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    You were berated, belittled and called insane?
    Says the guy who likened me to his girlfriend and claimed my posts are similar to Sarahís. All because we debated him and exposed him for having no real stance when it comes to the FO. He wanted to tear it down after 2016 but then claimed they shouldíve made trades to extend the window in 2017.

    I said he lived in a fantasy world though and he lost it.

  5. #9065
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    I do find it funny people think ďweíre in a messĒ the Jays are probably in one of the best positions they have ever been and better then so many other teams. We have two potential super stars, two potential all stars, maybe the best pitching prospect in baseball a ton of money to spend with a bunch of high end prospects and a top 5 pick this draft.

    If your just set on competing this season sure you might get disappointed but by no means is the team in a bad position.

  6. #9066
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    speaking of trades.........Atkins failed selling off guys like JD, Happ, Sanchez and possibly Stroman (although the jury is out on that trade still), but he has now turned Seunghwan Oh into Chase Anderson , Bryan Baker and Forrest Wall. He turned Loup into Waguespack and also turn Joe Smith into Samad Taylor and Thomas Pannone. He's done a good job with most of the smaller scale deals, but a poor job on the larger ones. I still don't know if he's the guy to mold this team moving forward.......hopefully he earns a little more trust this in the coming weeks.

  7. #9067
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceUpperCut View Post
    I do find it funny people think ďweíre in a messĒ the Jays are probably in one of the best positions they have ever been and better then so many other teams. We have two potential super stars, two potential all stars, maybe the best pitching prospect in baseball a ton of money to spend with a bunch of high end prospects and a top 5 pick this draft.

    If your just set on competing this season sure you might get disappointed but by no means is the team in a bad position.
    If Biggio stays at 2B I think he has superstar potential as well. I'm assuming you were referring to Bo and Vladdy there. I honestly think Biggio has the highest ceiling but will take the longest to get there. Bo and Vladdy are already great hitters. Biggio has the power but needs to develop the consistency. He has everything else though.

    This really is the best position the team has been in since I can remember and I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it. 2015 was fun but we all knew that teams window was already closing after its first year. I'm excited to see what Atkins does this off-season. He proved in 2016 that he could supplement a contender with no financial wiggle room and now for the first time in his tenure he has financial wiggle room.

    This off-season will really give us a true gauge on how Atkins is as a GM. He has a clean slate financially and a great core of 4 bats to add to. No I'm not expecting to contend for a playoff spot but pieces should be added in hopes of getting there in 2021. A couple 3, 4 or even 5 year deals worth north of 50 mil could be handed out now that will continue to pay dividends through their whole tenure.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  8. #9068
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    speaking of trades.........Atkins failed selling off guys like JD, Happ, Sanchez and possibly Stroman (although the jury is out on that trade still), but he has now turned Seunghwan Oh into Chase Anderson , Bryan Baker and Forrest Wall. He turned Loup into Waguespack and also turn Joe Smith into Samad Taylor and Thomas Pannone. He's done a good job with most of the smaller scale deals, but a poor job on the larger ones. I still don't know if he's the guy to mold this team moving forward.......hopefully he earns a little more trust this in the coming weeks.
    With Sanchez they didn't really fail. He got hurt immediately in 2017 and then sucked ever since. If they did indeed sell at the 2017 deadline the return for JD would've been great and the return for Happ would've definitely been better. I have high hopes for SWR though.

    Here's another fun one. He turned Drew Hutchison into Francisco Liriano, Reese McGuire and Teoscar Hernandez.

    He turned Edwin into Pearson.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  9. #9069
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    If Biggio stays at 2B I think he has superstar potential as well. I'm assuming you were referring to Bo and Vladdy there. I honestly think Biggio has the highest ceiling but will take the longest to get there. Bo and Vladdy are already great hitters. Biggio has the power but needs to develop the consistency. He has everything else though.

    This really is the best position the team has been in since I can remember and I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it. 2015 was fun but we all knew that teams window was already closing after its first year. I'm excited to see what Atkins does this off-season. He proved in 2016 that he could supplement a contender with no financial wiggle room and now for the first time in his tenure he has financial wiggle room.

    This off-season will really give us a true gauge on how Atkins is as a GM. He has a clean slate financially and a great core of 4 bats to add to. No I'm not expecting to contend for a playoff spot but pieces should be added in hopes of getting there in 2021. A couple 3, 4 or even 5 year deals worth north of 50 mil could be handed out now that will continue to pay dividends through their whole tenure.
    I love Biggio but I think his bat overall is well behind the other two and defensively doesnít stand out either. Still great just not on the same level. Cavan is also 3/4 years older then the other two so I donít think his strides will be quite the same.

    As for this season I also want Atkins to add I just donít think it needs to be done at the cost of the next few seasons. No need to rush and young guys still need playing time so I donít like the idea of blocking some guys just to get a few more wins that really donít matter.

  10. #9070
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceUpperCut View Post
    I love Biggio but I think his bat overall is well behind the other two and defensively doesnít stand out either. Still great just not on the same level. Cavan is also 3/4 years older then the other two so I donít think his strides will be quite the same.

    As for this season I also want Atkins to add I just donít think it needs to be done at the cost of the next few seasons. No need to rush and young guys still need playing time so I donít like the idea of blocking some guys just to get a few more wins that really donít matter.
    I agree hence why I said it'll take longer for him the longest to reach his ceiling. If he even does. His plate discipline is only going to get better. Power-wise I think at best he could give 30 HR in a season. Not consistently, just at best. If he gets his BA to .250 then an OBP of.380 is possible but if he gets it to .270 then he could flirt with .400. Vladdy and Bo are both better hitters per se but Bo's discipline and power just needs the slightest little uptick in average for him to be in the same light as those 2.

    The young arms that we have fighting for spots aren't really worthy of anything more than a 4/5 spot in the rotation or a spot in the pen. Guys like Keuchel, Wheeler, Teheran, Odorizzi or even Wood could be useful even 3 or 4 years from now. We can't just blow our load in one off-season like AA always would. Start adding now and continue for the next few years.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  11. #9071
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Iím as excited about the core 4 as the next guy. Theyíre gonna be fun to watch for at least the next 6 seasons.
    The rest of the team is in complete shambles though.
    Pearson is not going to turn the franchise around by himself.

    This is after many years for this FO.

    But at least we get to enjoy a lame duck FA spending spree lol.
    I had that fear myself as you know. Turns out that Atkins was extended for 2 years. His contract now runs longer than Shapiro's does.

    I don't think shambles is the right term. They have the big 4. Plus 2 catchers. Plus at least one bullpen pitcher. Plus a 4th OF. Plus utility bench guys. Plus #4 and #5 and #6 starters. Two of the positions most in need, are actually two of the ones most readily available at good prices in FA (1b & DH). They really need torps and a CF and then to see how much internal growth there is. It's not gonna get done in one off season, but they should start chipping away at that list immediately.
    Last edited by mike_noodles; 11-12-2019 at 07:35 PM.

  12. #9072
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    TO gets-Zack Cozart (1y-12.6M) Brandon Marsh and Jose Sorino

    LAA gets-Ken Giles and Riley Adams

    LAA gets a dominate closer and drops Cozarts who has been a complete dud and really has nowhere to play on the Angels. They would also add Adams who had an underrated season last year and who instantly be their best C prospect who could possibly get some MLB in 2020.

    TO takes on quite a bit of cash with Cozart who has been complete trash for two seasons but with a little luck he could be a useful back up infielder and veteran presence for a seaon. Toronto also gets what would hopefully be their future CFer in Marsh and a decent high upside arm in Soriano that is still a couple years away.

  13. #9073
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceUpperCut View Post
    TO gets-Zack Cozart (1y-12.6M) Brandon Marsh and Jose Sorino

    LAA gets-Ken Giles and Riley Adams

    LAA gets a dominate closer and drops Cozarts who has been a complete dud and really has nowhere to play on the Angels. They would also add Adams who had an underrated season last year and who instantly be their best C prospect who could possibly get some MLB in 2020.

    TO takes on quite a bit of cash with Cozart who has been complete trash for two seasons but with a little luck he could be a useful back up infielder and veteran presence for a seaon. Toronto also gets what would hopefully be their future CFer in Marsh and a decent high upside arm in Soriano that is still a couple years away.
    Atkins needs to pick up the phone and try. The Angels as a trading partner makes sense. There's a ton of pressure on the Angels (and Maddon) to win now and adding Giles would give them one of the best bull pens in the AL. Top 5 for sure. Robles moves to the 8th, Buttrey/Middleton get the 7th. Flamethrowers.

    I can see them move Marsh in the right deal

  14. #9074
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    Jesse Winker is another solid bat I could see being available. Heís slow and horrible in the outfield so I see him as more of a 1B/DH who can play in the OF periodically. Heís only 26 and heís 3-4 more years of control but has also had some injury issues. With Cincy having no DH and still going to have Votto at 1B for a while I can see them moving Winker in the right deal.

    In Winkers MLB career he has 740 ABís with a slash line of .285avg/.379obp/.466slg good for a .845 OPS he can hit and get on base heís just becoming a liability in the OF and has had injury issues.

    His lefty bat could fit in this line up wether itís at DH/1B or OF at times.

    Cincy needs bullpen arms so I got see them interested in Giles too. Or possibly a prospect package.

  15. #9075
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceUpperCut View Post
    TO gets-Zack Cozart (1y-12.6M) Brandon Marsh and Jose Sorino

    LAA gets-Ken Giles and Riley Adams

    LAA gets a dominate closer and drops Cozarts who has been a complete dud and really has nowhere to play on the Angels. They would also add Adams who had an underrated season last year and who instantly be their best C prospect who could possibly get some MLB in 2020.

    TO takes on quite a bit of cash with Cozart who has been complete trash for two seasons but with a little luck he could be a useful back up infielder and veteran presence for a seaon. Toronto also gets what would hopefully be their future CFer in Marsh and a decent high upside arm in Soriano that is still a couple years away.
    I like this a lot. With Adell ready to go, their outfield is crowded. I am very high on Marsh. He will be a good get.

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