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  1. #1
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    Jun 2009
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    Toronto Raptors: lightning in a bottle or legitimate?

    I know many people have them winning the division. I personally dont see it. I think they were the latest lin effect. No one took them seriously or thought they would sustain the success they had last season.

    Lowry is proven to only play well in contract years. Will he be able to do what he did last season with teams game planning for them?

    Derozan had a good summer but I would like to see how he responds now that he is on peoples radar.

    Valucinas or however you spell it is a solid big but I dont see him being anything more then a really good role player. Some toronto fans talk about him like he's the next Tim Duncan or Shaq.

    With the proven fact that no real superstar ever considers toronto a primary free agent destination how many more pieces do the raptors need to get in the draft to become contenders?

    They have a good Gm but I just dont see how they can improve on last years record. I think the more logical synopsis is that they regress a lot because players were playing above their capabilities last year.

    Ill chalk it up to an emotional season with a lot of turmoil and change that gave them a great edge.

    My vote is lightning in a bottle
    Last edited by latinofire21; 10-11-2014 at 07:26 AM. Reason: autotext

  2. #2
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    I think they'll be good, but they're more of lightning in a bottle, imo.

    I feel they're what The bucks and the sixers were for many years...a team that can make the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed or miss it as the 9th or 10th seed (and not get a high pick).

    I just don't think they'll be as good.

    That said, They are growing.

    Ewing dunk past Mourning
    GIFSoup
    DANTONI IS:
    -HORRIBLE out of timeouts
    -HORRIBLE D
    -Too many 3's
    -PF is pushed to the 3 point line
    -Doesn't play BIGS
    -Dog Houses players
    -HORRIBLE management of players and motivation

    [QUOTE=Knick4Knack;22330620]
    Go out on your front lawn, take a dump and see how long your neighbors will talk about that little slice of life. That's what Mike D did to this franchise./QUOTE]

  3. #3
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    Dec 2007
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    There good. But the east is weak. Also it helped Raptors when Celtics,76ers,Bucks decided to go the rebuild route instead of chase 8th seed.

  4. #4
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    Feb 2008
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    42
    No doubt top 6 in the east. Keeping the group together for another season without having to integrate a new body will be crucial this year. The top East contenders will all be playing alongside new bodies, Raps will be ready to show continuity which will help against those new lineups.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajharry View Post
    No doubt top 6 in the east. Keeping the group together for another season without having to integrate a new body will be crucial this year. The top East contenders will all be playing alongside new bodies, Raps will be ready to show continuity which will help against those new lineups.
    I don't think it would be safe to say your going to get the same production from key players. I think they all over performed last season.
    Originally Posted by jam
    Lin is doubling Rubio's point production. He's much more aggressive to the basket and is a spectacular finisher. Lin also shows no hesitation shooting from the outside and knocking down 3's right in the faces of 7 footers.

    Lin has spectacular alley oops, gets tons of steals, game winners and clutch play are unmatched by Rubio.

    Comparing Lin to Rubio is like comparing Kate Upton to Rosie O' Donnell. They're both on TV, but that's where the comparison ends.

  6. #6
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    They might take a step back this year in terms of placing but they could be potentially better than what we saw last year.

    1) They play defense.

    2) They are young. they are getting into their primes or have ways to get there. I don't think even think your saw the best of the Raptors players had to offer as they were still learning to play with another. Terrence Ross, Patrick Patterson, Jonas still have ways to get to their prime. Lowry, Derozan, GVZ, Amir entering or have entered their primes.

    3) Star Power: Do they have an all star- probably two - as Lowry was a deserving candidate last year, alongside Derozan. Jonas is a blue collar worker and will get to the floor for you, same with Hansbrough, Amir and Patrick Patterson. Not superstar power but there are only a handful of superstars in the league anyways and none of them won a ring last year.

    4) More Depth than last year: After watching some preseason games, they got better scoring off their bench now, with Lou Williams - as he is returning to his scoring self once again. James Johnson is also an improvement. They simply got better on the bench - GVZ in his prime, PP only 25 years old and he could start for Amir (or a lot of teams with his inside out game)

    5) Continuity - added role players, starting 5 the same, made the playoffs, got valuable experience.

    6) can't fluke top 10 defense and top 10 offense, even if they were lightning in a bottle. Imagine if they didn't waste away 1/4 of their season - they could have had 50+ wins potentially.

    I don't see Brooklyn or New York having a more rounded "team" than the Raps. I personally, along with the sentiments of the rest of the forum, feel that the Raptors have way less question marks than both New York teams, as both New York team got new coaches and new personnel.

    If the Raptors do fall in the standings, its only because the East got a lot better than the credit they are getting right now (i.e. one or both New York teams have to win at least 50 games to probably beat out the Raptors - i think 47-49+ wins) Otherwise, Raps are going to be the 3rd or 4th seed in the East.



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by latinofire21 View Post
    I don't think it would be safe to say your going to get the same production from key players. I think they all over performed last season.
    To that I would say say you aren't familiar with them. Lowry, okay he may not be at quite the same level, but don't count him out. He played well in other seasons too. Derozan has been following a linear curve, it's safe to assume you will get the same from him. Amir is one of the best role players in the game and very consistent, again, safe to assume his production will stay steady. Val and Ross are both entering their third seasons. While it may be foolish to expect both to have big leaps, I don't think small continued growth is out of the question. The bench had some small upgrades that should help. And then we add continuity, the best teams have it. Add all that up and I see another top 4 finish in the East.

  8. #8
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    I know Lowry only plays well in contract years. He was your main facilitator. I like the guy I hope he plays well but I just don't see it happening. Hes a very lazy player.

    Edit: By Lazy I mean he doesn't work hard to get better. There are tons of articles of how he slacks off once he gets a big deal and only works hard when hes up for a new contract. I hope he breaks that stigma but I just wouldn't bet on it.
    Originally Posted by jam
    Lin is doubling Rubio's point production. He's much more aggressive to the basket and is a spectacular finisher. Lin also shows no hesitation shooting from the outside and knocking down 3's right in the faces of 7 footers.

    Lin has spectacular alley oops, gets tons of steals, game winners and clutch play are unmatched by Rubio.

    Comparing Lin to Rubio is like comparing Kate Upton to Rosie O' Donnell. They're both on TV, but that's where the comparison ends.

  9. #9
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    They are legit as long as Valanciunas and Ross live up their potential. I think Amir Johnson and James Johnson come back down to earth this season and Lowry as well. I think Jonas can be a solid 15-10 guy but Ross has Allstar potential.
    Last edited by waveycrockett; 10-11-2014 at 10:06 AM.

  10. #10
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    J
    Quote Originally Posted by latinofire21 View Post
    I know Lowry only plays well in contract years. He was your main facilitator. I like the guy I hope he plays well but I just don't see it happening. Hes a very lazy player.

    Edit: By Lazy I mean he doesn't work hard to get better. There are tons of articles of how he slacks off once he gets a big deal and only works hard when hes up for a new contract. I hope he breaks that stigma but I just wouldn't bet on it.
    Why do you ramble on about Lowry like you know? why don't you wait one game and see what our backcourt does to yours before speaking random wishes. Lowry is playing at his contract year playoff level in preseason. Instead of starting rediculious threads you should spend your time organizing a NY think tank of excuses for this season. Between Phillyfire and Baltimore... I highly doubt it's Kyle who drops off in intensity.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by latinofire21 View Post
    I know Lowry only plays well in contract years. He was your main facilitator. I like the guy I hope he plays well but I just don't see it happening. Hes a very lazy player.

    Edit: By Lazy I mean he doesn't work hard to get better. There are tons of articles of how he slacks off once he gets a big deal and only works hard when hes up for a new contract. I hope he breaks that stigma but I just wouldn't bet on it.
    This is total ********. You keep saying that he only plays well in contract year, and as a Rockets fan, I can assure you that's complete nonsense. Before re-signing with Toronto this year, his last contact was signed in the summer of 2010. The previous season he had averaged basically 9/5/4 in only 24 minutes per game. The next two seasons, he absolutely crushed those numbers, averaging 14/7/4/2 with superior shooting percentages, efficiency and advanced stats. So I have literally zero idea where you got the notion that Lowry was a contract player kind of guy.

    As for him being lazy, I'd love to read those articles you speak of. If there are tons of them, I want you to find me a single one for us to read that specifically states how he "slacks off" after signing a contract. Because I didn't see that at all in his time in Houston. I saw a passionate guy who busted his *** and sometimes just let his emotions get the better of him. If he could have been calmer and hadn't always been at odds with McHale, I think there's a chance he's still playing basketball in Houston. (Although I'm glad he's gone, because the pick the Rockets got for him helped Houston get James Harden.)


  12. #12
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    Lightning in a bottle doesn't mean what you think

    I believe the phrase you are looking for is flash in the pan

    Regardless, they are legit on the upswing
    Last edited by AllBall; 10-11-2014 at 10:10 AM.

  13. #13
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    Thing about Kyle Lowry is that his style of play is an injury waiting to happen.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by koreancabbage View Post
    They might take a step back this year in terms of placing but they could be potentially better than what we saw last year.

    1) They play defense.

    2) They are young. they are getting into their primes or have ways to get there. I don't think even think your saw the best of the Raptors players had to offer as they were still learning to play with another. Terrence Ross, Patrick Patterson, Jonas still have ways to get to their prime. Lowry, Derozan, GVZ, Amir entering or have entered their primes.

    3) Star Power: Do they have an all star- probably two - as Lowry was a deserving candidate last year, alongside Derozan. Jonas is a blue collar worker and will get to the floor for you, same with Hansbrough, Amir and Patrick Patterson. Not superstar power but there are only a handful of superstars in the league anyways and none of them won a ring last year.

    4) More Depth than last year: After watching some preseason games, they got better scoring off their bench now, with Lou Williams - as he is returning to his scoring self once again. James Johnson is also an improvement. They simply got better on the bench - GVZ in his prime, PP only 25 years old and he could start for Amir (or a lot of teams with his inside out game)

    5) Continuity - added role players, starting 5 the same, made the playoffs, got valuable experience.

    6) can't fluke top 10 defense and top 10 offense, even if they were lightning in a bottle. Imagine if they didn't waste away 1/4 of their season - they could have had 50+ wins potentially.

    I don't see Brooklyn or New York having a more rounded "team" than the Raps. I personally, along with the sentiments of the rest of the forum, feel that the Raptors have way less question marks than both New York teams, as both New York team got new coaches and new personnel.

    If the Raptors do fall in the standings, its only because the East got a lot better than the credit they are getting right now (i.e. one or both New York teams have to win at least 50 games to probably beat out the Raptors - i think 47-49+ wins) Otherwise, Raps are going to be the 3rd or 4th seed in the East.
    Good post. The Raptors are a solid young team that play hard on both ends of the floor and have quite a bit of young talent on the roster. If they were in the West, I do think they'd struggle to make the playoffs, but in the East they're pretty much a lock for a top 4-6 seed for the next 2-3 years. To become a legitimate contender, though, I think they need to get way more out of Valanciunas. He needs to become the guy he was drafted to be.


  15. #15
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    Lol @ the Tags.

    I can see the team falling back a little bit (like to 45 or 46 wins, and to 4th or 5th in the East, behind Washington, Cleveland, Chicago and Maybe Miami) this season, but I think they're a legit team in the future.

    Chicago and Miami likely won't have many years still near the top, while it might take a little bit for some of these rebuilding teams to actually reach peak (Philly, Boston, Milwaukee). The Raptors also have a lot of Cap room next year after a bunch of contracts expire. Could make a run at a big name free agent next year, if we let go of the expirings.

    The team has young pieces that could develop, (whoever called JV the next Shaq is on crack lol). I'm not so sure about Ross, but if he does develop well, I would be curious on if we don't trade him away in a package to get a starting SF, which is our biggest weakness. I wish that we ended up going after Deng this offseason, as his balanced game would really help, but oh well lol
    Quote Originally Posted by P&GRealist View Post
    Sometimes, perception isn't reality.

    But Tittays are forever.


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