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  1. #5851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    Jays added 5 to the roster. We are full now.

    https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/...an-roster.html
    I think it's safe to say they won't be adding anyone in the Rule 5 draft and rightfully so. One of the catchers has the be traded considering there's 5 on the 40 man now.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  2. #5852
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Okay then, what was so good about his 2019 form if you want him to bounce back to it?
    It's not about me 'wanting'. I said it was passable if he gets back to those numbers and is a 1-2 WAR player, which he was in 2019.

    The realities of baseball doesn't have everyone producing good slash. If he doesn't produce a good slash but can be 1-2 WAR as your 9th best regular, I'm fine with it.

  3. #5853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    It's not about me 'wanting'. I said it was passable if he gets back to those numbers and is a 1-2 WAR player, which he was in 2019.

    The realities of baseball doesn't have everyone producing good slash. If he doesn't produce a good slash but can be 1-2 WAR as your 9th best regular, I'm fine with it.
    I'm just confused is all. He was on pace to be that same 1 WAR player he was a year ago so there was nothing to really bounce back to. One could argue he was doing better in 2020 because of his increased walk rate.

    I don't know what you're getting at in the second paragraph but thanks for sharing your baseball philosophy? I just went to OPS because it was what you were constantly referring to in our previous talk.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  4. #5854
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    He has had about 1 seasons worth of at bats. I’m gonna give him a little more time. I have infinite more faith that he can be a better hitter in mlb than mcguire and people fell for his hot streak in mlb despite never hitting in aaa

  5. #5855
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    I'm just confused is all. He was on pace to be that same 1 WAR player he was a year ago so there was nothing to really bounce back to. One could argue he was doing better in 2020 because of his increased walk rate.
    Ive been avoiding 2020 numbers due to SSS. I believe he got 7 of his 22 hits in 2 games too. Though for arguments sake, i believe over 162 games he was on pace for 2.2 WAR in 2019 but only 1.5 in 2020. I dont suspect that walk rate to be sustained.

    I don't know what you're getting at in the second paragraph but thanks for sharing your baseball philosophy? I just went to OPS because it was what you were constantly referring to in our previous talk.
    OPS talk in prior discussion was to point out that every team has players who provide value despite low slash. If we have 1 player like that, we should still be fine so there shouldnt be a big concern if Jansen starts the season as starting C if he can be a 2 WAR player.

    I guess it makes sense to understand the context of how its being used.
    Last edited by Raps18-19 Champ; 11-21-2020 at 06:56 PM.

  6. #5856
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    This conversation will go no where, Jansen is not an issue for me, if it ever becomes a problem I'm sure we can find a glove first catcher, we have enough bats to cover especially if we get Springer. Also, McCann is available and can be had for considerably less than JT

  7. #5857
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    Ive been avoiding 2020 numbers due to SSS. I believe he got 7 of his 22 hits in 2 games too. Though for arguments sake, i believe over 162 games he was on pace for 2.2 WAR in 2019 but only 1.5 in 2020. I dont suspect that walk rate to be sustained.



    OPS talk in prior discussion was to point out that every team has players who provide value despite low slash. If we have 1 player like that, we should still be fine so there shouldnt be a big concern if Jansen starts the season as starting C if he can be a 2 WAR player.

    I guess it makes sense to understand the context of how its being used.
    Where are you finding this data?

  8. #5858
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Where are you finding this data?
    Per fangraphs, he was a 1.4 WAR player in 107 games in 2020 and 0.4 WAR in 43 games.

    I was guestimating how it averaged over a full season so I may be a bit off, though I don't like doing that since it assumes the player plays the same regardless (which is often never the case). I was just trying to simplify it since were talking about how he was on pace to be the same 1 WAR player.

    If you were using BR, then I believe they would be on the same pace.

  9. #5859
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    2019/2020 combined Jansen is 21st overall for WAR, but note he's also one of the youngest in the majors. Catchers are notoriously difficult to figure out

    2019/2020 for catchers with 500 PA's he's 10 th overal, Molina, Wilson are right there with him over that time period
    Last edited by hanton; 11-21-2020 at 09:42 PM.

  10. #5860
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    Interesting article about Kloffenstein's development last year during the COVID season. We didn't get as much information on the prospects, so nice to read some:

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article...-covid-league/

    That’s how Adam Kloffenstein spent his summer. Faced with the possibility of losing an entire developmental season due to the COVID-19 pandemic, the Blue Jays pitching prospect played independent ball in the Constellation Energy League — a four-team, Texas-based circuit that featured the continent’s highest level of organized baseball outside MLB. Just 19, the league’s youngest player by four years, Kloffenstein went to get innings and salvage something of his 2020. He got an education.

    “It was an experience to say the least,” Kloffenstein says. “I didn’t know what to expect going in. I’d never even played full-season ball. And now I’m walking into a locker room with triple-A and big-league guys. Guys who played over in Japan or Mexico and made all kinds of money. They’ve all got wives and kids. Some of these guys are old enough to be my dad.”
    But Kloffenstein just missed the cut behind fellow top pitching prospects Alek Manoah and Simeon Woods Richardson. The Blue Jays told him to stay ready — if someone got hurt or came down with COVID-19, Kloffenstein could be next in line to join the pool. But live bullpens get old after a while. And the COVID-league concept had advanced beyond mere speculation to an eight-week, 56-game schedule played at a nearby minor-league ballpark admitting more than 2,000 fans per game. Kloffenstein figured it couldn’t hurt to ask the Blue Jays if they’d let him spend his summer playing independent ball instead of waiting for a phone call that might never come.

    Understandably, the club had questions. Who would be tracking his workload so he wasn’t overused? What kind of training staff and rehab facilities would he have access to? What precautions would be taken to prevent spreading the virus? There were a lot of risks and Kloffenstein figured he wouldn’t receive permission to play. But following a few days of deliberation, including conversations with league organizers, the Blue Jays came around to it.

    “It was similar to the process we run with players going to winter ball. The first focus for all of us is, ‘OK, how can we help this player get better? How can we help keep him safe? How can we support him as much as possible through this?’” says Gil Kim, Toronto’s director of player development. “So, we looked at some of the safety protocols that the league had and then we put a plan together.”
    An early-season trade to a younger team made up largely of recent University of Texas graduates helped ease his nerves, putting Kloffenstein in an environment where he wasn’t the only young guy in the room. His new manager, Koby Clemens, was only 33. And his new pitching coach, Koby’s dad Roger, had a few stories to tell from the couple decades he spent as the game’s best pitcher.

    “We talked about some interesting things with Roger. One day he threw a bullpen for us and in between each pitch he was telling us different things he’d do that kept him healthy throughout his career,” Kloffenstein says. “And that stuff spoke volumes to me. Because he was never hurt. And he was really good for a long time. I think that pitching 25 years and virtually never missing a start is just as impressive as seven Cy Youngs.”

    Kloffenstein settled in from there and started attacking hitters more aggressively, trusting his ability and that he belonged. A particularly rough, six-run inning inflated his 4.64 COVID-league ERA. But he finished his time there with scoreless outings in five of his final eight appearances, striking out nearly a batter an inning.
    His ultimate goal — a lofty one, Kloffenstein admits — is to have five 70-grade pitches as a big-leaguer. Four-seamer, sinker, slider, curveball, and changeup. A deep arsenal that will give him more options if one pitch or another isn’t working on a given night; that will let him turn a lineup over three times without ever giving the same hitter the same look.

    That’s how workhorse starters like Justin Verlander, Trevor Bauer and Hyun-jin Ryu pitch. That’s how Clemens did it in his day. For Kloffenstein’s career to end up in the same bracket will be an incredible challenge. But why would he aim to be anything less?

    “That’s where I want to be and that’s what I strive for,” he says. “I’ve got three pitches right now that are on their way to being elite big-league pitches. And I want to get the other two pitches up there, as well. Even if I end up with five 65-grade or 60-grade pitches, that’s still a good recipe for a guy that can go deep into ballgames.”

  11. #5861
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Interesting article about Kloffenstein's development last year during the COVID season. We didn't get as much information on the prospects, so nice to read some:

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article...-covid-league/
    "His ultimate goal — a lofty one, Kloffenstein admits — is to have five 70-grade pitches as a big-leaguer"

    love it.

  12. #5862
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    "His ultimate goal — a lofty one, Kloffenstein admits — is to have five 70-grade pitches as a big-leaguer"

    love it.
    No kidding. Confident kid.

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