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  1. #466
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    The Korver deal necessitates me to post this:

    We're at the point where reporters are openly claiming that if Team A doesn't sign Superstar Y, the team will "tank" in 2013-14. As Peachtree Hoops documents, ESPN's Chad Ford has been big on this claim, suggesting that the Hawks will join other "tankers" if Atlanta can't land Dwight Howard.

    Our Paul Flannery got at this on Tuesday, but it needs to be repeated again and again: we have a whole lot of different definitions of tanking bouncing around, and none of them really make sense. And the idea that a team can pitch itself to a major free agent, lose the bidding and decide to suck -- it doesn't even make sense!

    In my opinion, tanking is an act, not a plan. If I were the arbiter of basketball definitions, to tank would be to intentionally lose one or more games through abnormal rotational decisions, DNPs and/or shooting nights. The Suns sitting a healthy Goran Dragic against his will in March? Tanking. Two teams sitting their top-five players in the final week of the season, and then one of those teams (the Celtics) sitting a hot player the entire fourth? Tanking. The Warriors yanking a rookie because he's too good? Tanking. Mark Madsen firing up seven 3-pointers in the final game of the 2005-06 season? The most egregious tanking ever.

    Those are acts of tanking. The Celtics trading Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Jason Terry for draft picks and contracts? That's not tanking, that's rebuilding. And the reality of rebuilding in the NBA is that the draft is the best, most efficient, most effective and often the most painful path. It's long, arduous and it works. Even if you bail out on it early -- as the C's did in 2007 -- you need the picks because ... other teams are doing the same damn thing.

    The Sixers trading a young All-Star for Nerlens Noel and a 2014 pick? That's called selling high and rebuilding. The Hawks deciding that they should not sign a bunch of mid-rung veterans if they do not land Howard? That's called smart team-building. The Raptors trading Andrea Bargnani and possibly Rudy Gay? That's called cleaning up the old tenant's mess. The Bobcats ... I don't know, what exactly are the Bobcats supposed to be doing to avoid the deep lottery right now? Signing Al Jefferson, Jarrett Jack and Kyle Korver?

    The anti-tank crowd will bash teams for not putting together a competitive team while bashing other teams for overpaying for marginal players. If we're going to "fix" tanking, focus on actual tanking. Why on Earth would we want to punish bad teams (and their fans)? Isn't being awful punishment enough?

    The sentiment especially reeks coming from neutral or fans attached to other teams. If a team sucks, and the fans of that team understand why the team sucks and when it should get better, and the team loses gate receipts, prestige and attention accordingly, what right does a League Pass jockey have to get pissed and demand change? (And like watching the middle-of-the-pack playoff teams -- looking at you, Bucks, Hawks and Celtics -- was any more fun that viewing the Bobcats, Suns and Wizards.)

    If there's anything for Adam Silver to do on this subject when he takes over, it's to address the acts of tanking through fines or perhaps more aggressive punishment. The question of what constitutes an act of tanking is not nearly as complicated when you strip all of the rebuilding stuff away. Heck, include a warning system to set some boundaries. When a reporter says the Suns plan to scratch a healthy Dragic for two games, good ol' Stu Jackson can fire up his Batphone and threaten a fine. "Fake an injury like a real tanker," he says. It won't end the practice, but the practice pops up a handful of times every couple of years.

    The actual problem of tanking -- once you drill down and define "tanking" reasonably -- just isn't a big deal. It's the conflation of rebuilding with tanking that makes it look so pervasive.
    http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/7/3...ilding-tanking

  2. #467
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    "And like watching the middle-of-the-pack playoff teams -- looking at you, Bucks, Hawks and Celtics -- was any more fun that viewing the Bobcats, Suns and Wizards."

    This is what I'm talking about. Why be a middle of the pack team when you have still have the same reputation (no reputation) of winning by being at the bottom and getting better draft selections?

  3. #468
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    If I read the word "tank" or any other variation, I swear I'm gonna f'n go insane!!!

    Lets take a playoff team with already horrendous attendance and little to no fan base and "rebuild" and/or suck on purpose for the next few years for what?!!!!!!!!! to "hope" to get the next "can't miss" kid who may or may not transfer his skill to the NBA?

    Let's revisit this thread 3-4 years from now when we're still in the basement of the NBA getting laughed at by the rest of the league, fans, media and everyone else...

    F--- it... Let's tank, I hope we do get Wiggins, I hope he's a f---'n bust and we really rebuild for the next 10 years... That way I can get season tickets for $1

  4. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATL-ALL-DAY View Post
    If I read the word "tank" or any other variation, I swear I'm gonna f'n go insane!!!

    Lets take a playoff team with already horrendous attendance and little to no fan base and "rebuild" and/or suck on purpose for the next few years for what?!!!!!!!!! to "hope" to get the next "can't miss" kid who may or may not transfer his skill to the NBA?

    Let's revisit this thread 3-4 years from now when we're still in the basement of the NBA getting laughed at by the rest of the league, fans, media and everyone else...

    F--- it... Let's tank, I hope we do get Wiggins, I hope he's a f---'n bust and we really rebuild for the next 10 years... That way I can get season tickets for $1
    What do you want to happen if we don't get Howard?

    The same ****ing ******** we've been doing the last 5+ years? No thanks on that.

  5. #470
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    Little Fanbase? What would happen if we stay in the middle?

    Now what would happen if we get Wiggins/Parker/Randle? "Fanbase" will go up.


    Off-topic, is it true you don't have to spend 90% of your cap to FAs, you could just spread the remaining money to your current roster? Load up on vet min players and give the rest to Horford to sit the year.

  6. #471
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    Hope you all enjoy your "Will Suck For Wiggins" shirts and wear them proudly


    I'm sorry, I can't respect a team/owners/front office/ or fan base that will lose on purpose


    In the words of Herm Edwards "YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!"

  7. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATL-ALL-DAY View Post
    Hope you all enjoy your "Will Suck For Wiggins" shirts and wear them proudly


    I'm sorry, I can't respect a team/owners/front office/ or fan base that will lose on purpose


    In the words of Herm Edwards "YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!"
    In the words of the Phillips Arena: "Let's Go Celtics! Let's Go Bulls! Let's Go Lakers!". This is what has been happening with our desire to stay "competitive".

  8. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATL-ALL-DAY View Post
    If I read the word "tank" or any other variation, I swear I'm gonna f'n go insane!!!

    Lets take a playoff team with already horrendous attendance and little to no fan base and "rebuild" and/or suck on purpose for the next few years for what?!!!!!!!!! to "hope" to get the next "can't miss" kid who may or may not transfer his skill to the NBA?

    Let's revisit this thread 3-4 years from now when we're still in the basement of the NBA getting laughed at by the rest of the league, fans, media and everyone else...

    F--- it... Let's tank, I hope we do get Wiggins, I hope he's a f---'n bust and we really rebuild for the next 10 years... That way I can get season tickets for $1
    Also, you posted this right after I posted that article. Do yourself a favor and read that please and stop acting like a ****ing child.

  9. #474
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    I don't know how some of you can't get this through your heads: THE NBA IS BROKEN. It is the worst professional sports league IN THE WORLD by a huge margin. it's not the NFL or MLB, actually competing isn't that easy. Gotta take one step back to take two steps forward and even then it's not easy.

  10. #475
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    Nobody wants to lose. We all want to win a championship. Not going to do that spending money on Ellis, etc.

  11. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Silver&Black* View Post
    Nobody wants to lose. We all want to win a championship. Not going to do that spending money on Ellis, etc.
    Yeah, I'm honestly genuinely offended that people are insinuating that we want to lose. We want to win, everybody wants to win. Signing players that won't get us over the hump to huge contracts is not the way to do that. If we don't get Dwight, the best team we can field won't be better than our best team with JJ/Smoove/Horford so what do you really want?

    I'm asking honestly, not facetiously, do you want to be a mediocre playoff team for the foreseeable future? I'm way past that. If you don't like losing, stop watching basketball until the Hawks are good. We have a great football team and a very good baseball team. Watch those sports.

  12. #477
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    Teague/JJ/Smith/Horford >>>> anything you can put together reasonably in Free agency after Dwight. That is not trying to win to me either.

    As a Raiders fan I have spent a decade watching the once proud franchise destroy itself. Now with a respectable GM and new coach, they completely wiped the old team away and started from the bottom, to make a team to their vision and looks to have a brighter future because of that. They didn't keep the busts and the overpaid players just to stay a 7 or 8 win team.

    The Hawks could do the same with a now respectable GM and new coach. The biggest draft since Lebron/Melo/Wade sounds like the perfect time to start building a WINNER, not a "well we made the playoffs atleast" franchise.
    Last edited by *Silver&Black*; 07-04-2013 at 12:55 AM.

  13. #478
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    Oh and the ones like myself that would like us to start from scratch, we are only wanting it IF we can't get a Franchise player otherwise (through Free Agency-Howard or Trade).

    If Friday comes along and Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, and Al Horford are all together talking about winning a title for the Hawks, you best believe all of us are on the same page. We want to win.

  14. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATL-ALL-DAY View Post
    Hope you all enjoy your "Will Suck For Wiggins" shirts and wear them proudly


    I'm sorry, I can't respect a team/owners/front office/ or fan base that will lose on purpose


    In the words of Herm Edwards "YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!"
    lol says the guy that has a picture of rondo, howard, horford, and smith all on the same team? And WE are the delusional ones?

    I mean honestly... what would YOU RELISTICALLY like for the hawks to do this offseason? You do realize free agents have never flocked to Atlanta? And your approach (which I would assume would have us signing guys like ellis and Iggy) would most likely result in us drafting an endless supply of role players, which again would be fine for making the playoffs, but not fine if you want to accomplish anything of value.

    And do you remember the last "can't-miss kid" that was drafted? His name was Lebron ****ing James. But that's not that point. The point is ... if you cant attract big time free agents, you have to build through the draft. What is so hard to understand about this concept? Just look at the team that our new ****ing coach came from.... Duncan, Parker, Leonard, Ginobli, etc. They were all DRAFTED. They weren't big time free agents that the spurs brought it.

    Damn my head hurts.

  15. #480
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    Jun 2013
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    I have no idea what they plan on doing with Korver. I like Korver... But I juss don't see how he fits here unless they thnk they are getting Howard and need a shooter.

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