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  1. #1
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    Struggling in the Finals: Do you credit the stage or the competition?

    Ive seen people reference Brons Finals stats as proof that he shrinks on the biggest stage, do you guys think there is something about the Finals that overburdens players or is it more about the competition in the Finals?

  2. #2
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    The stage of the Finals is only big because the competition level is very high.

    I'm not sure I understand this thread.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunsfan88 View Post
    The stage of the Finals is only big because the competition level is very high.

    I'm not sure I understand this thread.
    This. This. This

  4. #4
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    It's both. Your playing against a top team on the biggest stage. That will effect your game. However, if your best player you should still have a massive impact in the games played.

  5. #5
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    CAREER PLAYOFF AVERAGES

    Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
    05-06 CLE 13 13 46.5 0.476 0.333 0.737 1.7 6.4 8.1 5.8 1.4 0.7 5.00 3.38 30.8
    06-07 CLE 20 20 44.6 0.416 0.280 0.755 1.3 6.8 8.0 8.0 1.7 0.5 3.30 2.00 25.0
    07-08 CLE 13 13 42.5 0.411 0.257 0.731 1.2 6.6 7.8 7.6 1.8 1.3 4.15 2.54 28.2
    08-09 CLE 14 14 41.4 0.510 0.333 0.749 1.4 7.8 9.1 7.3 1.6 0.9 2.71 2.14 35.3
    09-10 CLE 11 11 41.8 0.502 0.400 0.733 1.4 7.9 9.3 7.6 1.7 1.8 3.82 2.09 29.1
    10-11 MIA 21 21 43.9 0.466 0.353 0.763 1.6 6.8 8.4 5.9 1.7 1.2 3.14 2.67 23.7
    11-12 MIA 23 23 42.7 0.500 0.259 0.739 2.3 7.4 9.7 5.6 1.9 0.7 3.52 2.04 30.3
    12-13 MIA 20 20 41.1 0.501 0.364 0.767 1.4 6.9 8.3 6.5 1.6 0.8 2.95 1.85 25.1
    Career -- 135 135 43.1 0.473 0.319 0.747 1.6 7.0 8.6 6.7 1.7 0.9 3.49 2.30 28.0

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyFaninLA View Post
    CAREER PLAYOFF AVERAGES

    Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
    05-06 CLE 13 13 46.5 0.476 0.333 0.737 1.7 6.4 8.1 5.8 1.4 0.7 5.00 3.38 30.8
    06-07 CLE 20 20 44.6 0.416 0.280 0.755 1.3 6.8 8.0 8.0 1.7 0.5 3.30 2.00 25.0
    07-08 CLE 13 13 42.5 0.411 0.257 0.731 1.2 6.6 7.8 7.6 1.8 1.3 4.15 2.54 28.2
    08-09 CLE 14 14 41.4 0.510 0.333 0.749 1.4 7.8 9.1 7.3 1.6 0.9 2.71 2.14 35.3
    09-10 CLE 11 11 41.8 0.502 0.400 0.733 1.4 7.9 9.3 7.6 1.7 1.8 3.82 2.09 29.1
    10-11 MIA 21 21 43.9 0.466 0.353 0.763 1.6 6.8 8.4 5.9 1.7 1.2 3.14 2.67 23.7
    11-12 MIA 23 23 42.7 0.500 0.259 0.739 2.3 7.4 9.7 5.6 1.9 0.7 3.52 2.04 30.3
    12-13 MIA 20 20 41.1 0.501 0.364 0.767 1.4 6.9 8.3 6.5 1.6 0.8 2.95 1.85 25.1
    Career -- 135 135 43.1 0.473 0.319 0.747 1.6 7.0 8.6 6.7 1.7 0.9 3.49 2.30 28.0
    Thank you for posting this lovely block of numbers

  7. #7
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    Lebron Regular Season

    Career -- 765 764 39.7 0.490 0.337 0.747 1.2 6.0 7.3 6.9 1.7 0.8 3.30 1.88 27.6

    Lebron Playoffs

    Career -- 135 135 43.1 0.473 0.319 0.747 1.6 7.0 8.6 6.7 1.7 0.9 3.49 2.30 28.0

    More points per game in the playoffs and more rebounds, assists almost the same, steals exactly the same, blocks slightly higher, turnovers higher in playoffs.....seems likely he is a very similiar player career wise in the playoffs and if you watch him game in and game out in the playoffs the eye test tells you he's virtually the same player.


    I want to add Kobe and Jordan have had a few bad finals games in there careers as well....its part of the game

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SugeKnight View Post
    Thank you for posting this lovely block of numbers
    Your welcome

  9. #9
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    dup post

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunsfan88 View Post
    The stage of the Finals is only big because the competition level is very high.

    I'm not sure I understand this thread.
    Not necessarily, Ive seen people discount Finals performances because of (allegedly) inferior comp. Just the same Ive seen arguments for players who didn't do enough despite the advantage. When those situations arise, people tend to blame the pressure of the biggest stage rather than the adversary.

    The point of this thread is to see where you stand on players struggling at this stage. What is the root cause for you?

  11. #11
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    When you put up monster numbers against better defenses in earlier rounds and your production plummets against inferior defenses once your on the main stage, I have a hard time giving all the credit to the competition.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    When you put up monster numbers against better defenses in earlier rounds and your production plummets against inferior defenses once your on the main stage, I have a hard time giving all the credit to the competition.
    If it is about the stage, I would agree that these situations are when it comes into question.

  13. #13
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    there can be a lot of different root causes, it goes player by player. For instance, if a coach uses his player way too much in the regular season, and that player is asked to carry a burden that almost no man can handle, he will eventually wear down. The timing may come at the worst spot, the NBA finals.

    A player can put too much pressure on himself, and overthink. A player might be facing a team that didn't appear to be as good during the regular season, but presents a nightmare matchup for the clearly superior team. Think GS-Dallas for instance, or even the past series, Indy-Miami.

    I think it depends on the player. Which is why I think it is so important for a coach to manage his players on elite teams, knowing those 25 games in the playoffs are equivalent to 50 regular season games when you factor in the play being at a higher intensity, skill, and effort level.

    Lastly, some players don't have the mental toughness that others do. That can never be changed.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  14. #14
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    I think its obviously an undefinable mix of both. There has to be certain prerequisites to cause matchup problems for the other team. In the case of Miami, true 7 foot defensive anchors causes a lot of matchup problems for them over the years. You saw Chandler give them fits in 2011, Hibbert this year, Duncan, Noah and even KG to an extent. I think you need this sort of matchup advantage as a prerequisite to give LeBron, Wade and Miami any sort of problems in a playoff series.

    You saw LeBron dominate slow footed Perkins who couldn't deal with the speed of Miami on the biggest stage too so I don't think its only a stage thing. But LeBron can dominate any defense at any time, he's monster games against better defenses in earlier rounds, better anchors that cause more matchup problems for them, so when you take out top ranked D's with top notch D anchors and than all of a sudden your production falls into the gutter against inferior defenses you gotta start thinking about the mental psyche being broken because simple logic would point to it being more than just the competition.

  15. #15
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    I'm sure the nerves and the circus and whatever other effects the 'stage' has can play a role, but there are way too many non-'stage' variables and way too small of a sample size to ever really credit a bad game or series to any particular cause with any confidence. Anytime I see someone put any struggles down to 'the stage', all I take out of it is that that person doesn't know what they're talking about.

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