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  1. #1
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    What's your batting order, part 2

    Sox offense was held under 5 hits for the eighth time this season. While their OBP remains solid (#2 in MLB) their inability to produce runs (hitting .169 in their last 11 games with RISP) has led to a feast or famine offense that is currently starving to death.

    How would you adjust the lineup to kick start things?

  2. #2
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    My instinct would be to drop Victorino down in the order on a consistent basis and get Pedroia back to his comfort zone in the 2-hole. Victorino's numbers (.297/.358/.378) might be useful to jump start the second half of the lineup, getting on base with a little speed. Put some of the more free-swinging guys with power behind him and it's almost like the second half of the lineup could be a repeat of the first half.

    Ellsbury, CF
    Pedroia, 2B
    Ortiz, DH
    Napoli, 1B
    Nava/Gomes, LF
    Victorino, RF
    Drew, SS
    Middlebrooks, 3B
    Salty et al., C

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSoxtober View Post
    My instinct would be to drop Victorino down in the order on a consistent basis and get Pedroia back to his comfort zone in the 2-hole. Victorino's numbers (.297/.358/.378) might be useful to jump start the second half of the lineup, getting on base with a little speed. Put some of the more free-swinging guys with power behind him and it's almost like the second half of the lineup could be a repeat of the first half.

    Ellsbury, CF
    Pedroia, 2B
    Ortiz, DH
    Napoli, 1B
    Nava/Gomes, LF
    Victorino, RF
    Drew, SS
    Middlebrooks, 3B
    Salty et al., C
    Pedroia is a bit better in the #3 slot then the #2 slot career wise (he has 120 GS in the 3 hole, and 595 in the #2). He's best in the #4 hole (30 GS).

    Victorino is best in the #6 hole, but good in the #2 & #5.

    How about:

    Ells (leadoff #1)
    Pedey
    Ortiz
    Naps

    Victorino (leadoff #2)
    (vs RHP) - (vs LHP)
    Nava - WMB
    WMB - Gomes
    Drew
    (leadoff #3 - and once the C makes an out, than he's first leadoff hitter in front of Ells. Normally you put the fast guy in at #9, but the Catches have meh OBP, but decent SLG), Drew first gets you more runs long term.
    C
    Last edited by bagwell368; 05-15-2013 at 03:07 PM.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

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  4. #4
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    Pedroia has no business hitting 3rd anyways. He has only 10 XBH all year and is hitting .338. That's almost no power.His FB% is 23% compared to his career average of 36%. His LD% are the same, but his ISO is about half of what were used to seeing too. He's playing well but he is the typical 2 hitter right now.

    I agree with RST's lineup exactly.
    Last edited by Nomar; 05-15-2013 at 03:44 PM. Reason: funny mistake

  5. #5
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    Peedy needs to go back to his #2 spot. The problem is, this team really lacks one real middle of the order power bat. Even though WMB has been struggling of late, I'd put him right in the thick of the order (#6) and let him work it out. He's far to good to continue his struggles all season.

    Here's my twist... Even though Ellsbury hasn't shown his power from a few years back, he could potentially be a great #3 hitter on this team and be the middle of the order bat we have been missing.

    Here's my line-up

    Victorino RF
    Pedroia 2B
    Ellsbury CF
    Ortiz DH
    Napoli 1B
    Will Middlebrooks 3B
    Gomes/Nava LF
    Salty C
    Drew SS

    I kept Drew down at 9th to round out the line-up and perhaps get on base for the top of the order in later innings.
    2015/2017 Superbowl Champs

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celticsfan2007 View Post
    Peedy needs to go back to his #2 spot. The problem is, this team really lacks one real middle of the order power bat. Even though WMB has been struggling of late, I'd put him right in the thick of the order (#6) and let him work it out. He's far to good to continue his struggles all season.

    Here's my twist... Even though Ellsbury hasn't shown his power from a few years back, he could potentially be a great #3 hitter on this team and be the middle of the order bat we have been missing.

    Here's my line-up

    Victorino RF
    Pedroia 2B
    Ellsbury CF
    Ortiz DH
    Napoli 1B
    Will Middlebrooks 3B
    Gomes/Nava LF
    Salty C
    Drew SS

    I kept Drew down at 9th to round out the line-up and perhaps get on base for the top of the order in later innings.
    WMB is killing the line-up. No way 6th, lower 3rd only

    Ells has historically hit better outside of lead-off except in 2011. He could be argued from 6th-9th, but 3rd is ridiculous.

    Victorino like Pederoia isn't a good lead-off hitter. Pretty much stuck with Ells.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    Pedroia has no business hitting 3rd anyways. He has only 10 XBH all year and is hitting .338. That's almost no power.
    A #3 hitter should be an excellent hitter with balanced OBP & SLG, or better OBP than SLG. Pedroia is at .346/.435/.431 midway through todays game.

    That's good for:

    4th in OBP
    4th in BA
    52nd in SLG
    23rd in OPS+

    Given that the line-up isn't blessed with great hitters this year (Pedroia is either the #1 or #2 best hitter on the team) #3 is just fine. I had him at #2 in my mock, but it was more to get Victorino down for a 2nd leadoff guy, not to diss Pedroia.

    Last year at the #3, Pedroia was: .316/.368/.504, and in the #2: .268/.329/.404

    Looks like he had plenty of business being there last year - and more than enough comfort.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  8. #8
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    Just off the top of my head:

    1. Victorino
    2. Pedroia
    3. Ortiz
    4. Napoli
    5. Nava
    6. Ellsbury
    7. Middlebrooks
    8. Drew
    9. Salty

    Ellsbury is really starting to piss me off. He's been a terrible leadoff hitter this year. His AVG has been decreasing (7 for his last 42), his power seems to be gone, and he hits so many weak grounders to 1st or 2nd base. I don't know, kinda can't wait for him to be gone. Still don't think he's going to get the huge contract Boras and he want.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    How about:

    Ells (leadoff #1)
    Pedey
    Ortiz
    Naps

    Victorino (leadoff #2)
    (vs RHP) - (vs LHP)
    Nava - WMB
    WMB - Gomes
    Drew
    (leadoff #3 - and once the C makes an out, than he's first leadoff hitter in front of Ells. Normally you put the fast guy in at #9, but the Catches have meh OBP, but decent SLG), Drew first gets you more runs long term.
    C
    I like this a lot. I wavered on the Victorino/Nava spots at 5 & 6. Ultimately I pushed Nava up a spot based on his power relative to Victorino. I tend to think of #5 as more of a power guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by goshhhjosh View Post
    Ellsbury is really starting to piss me off. He's been a terrible leadoff hitter this year. His AVG has been decreasing (7 for his last 42), his power seems to be gone, and he hits so many weak grounders to 1st or 2nd base. I don't know, kinda can't wait for him to be gone. Still don't think he's going to get the huge contract Boras and he want.
    Ellsbury is (a) doing a good job of convincing the Sox not to pursue him and (b) preparing us for his speedy singles/doubles replacement. FWIW, 1 HR from CF/RF this season puts the Sox... um... last in MLB.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSoxtober View Post
    I like this a lot. I wavered on the Victorino/Nava spots at 5 & 6. Ultimately I pushed Nava up a spot based on his power relative to Victorino. I tend to think of #5 as more of a power guy.



    Ellsbury is (a) doing a good job of convincing the Sox not to pursue him and (b) preparing us for his speedy singles/doubles replacement. FWIW, 1 HR from CF/RF this season puts the Sox... um... last in MLB.
    We have 3. Ells with 1, Victorino with 2. Span and Revere are the only CF without HRs though (among starters).

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSoxtober View Post
    Ellsbury is (a) doing a good job of convincing the Sox not to pursue him and (b) preparing us for his speedy singles/doubles replacement. FWIW, 1 HR from CF/RF this season puts the Sox... um... last in MLB.
    I don't know. He's in a contract year and he's playing like this? Usually, a contract year pushes players to you know, perform. I don't think the Red Sox try to pursue him, let some other team overpay for the schmuck.

    Where has his power gone? 32 HR's in 2011 and only 1 in 2013. Of his 44 hits on the year, 7 are doubles, 4 are triples, and 1 is a home run. 32 of his hits are singles! Also it hardly seems as though he's getting on base to use his speed. So much of his game is built on speed, and when you aren't getting on base to use said speed, you're ineffective.

    Even if JBJR is his singles/doubles replacement, at least he'll be less expensive. Good riddance.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by goshhhjosh View Post
    I don't know. He's in a contract year and he's playing like this? Usually, a contract year pushes players to you know, perform. I don't think the Red Sox try to pursue him, let some other team overpay for the schmuck.
    We seem to be saying the same thing. The (a) part was convincing the Sox not to pursue him. Even after the fawning praise in 2011 I (and a few others) wanted to see him repeat before committing money and years to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by goshhhjosh View Post
    Even if JBJR is his singles/doubles replacement, at least he'll be less expensive. Good riddance.
    Exactly what I had in mind. Despite his numbers to this point I don't see JBJr as a long term power threat. However, if he is able to make enough contact to pull off a .280-.300BA then his patience at the plate and BB rate will be well worth it as a replacement of Ellsbury the singles hitter.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    We have 3. Ells with 1, Victorino with 2. Span and Revere are the only CF without HRs though (among starters).
    Weird. I got the line from the press. I must have misread; it may have only meant CF but they did mention the CF/RF combination in the same breath. Maybe it was Ellsbury with 1 and the CF/RF combination has the least (though greater than 1).

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSoxtober View Post
    We seem to be saying the same thing. The (a) part was convincing the Sox not to pursue him. Even after the fawning praise in 2011 I (and a few others) wanted to see him repeat before committing money and years to him.


    Exactly what I had in mind. Despite his numbers to this point I don't see JBJr as a long term power threat. However, if he is able to make enough contact to pull off a .280-.300BA then his patience at the plate and BB rate will be well worth it as a replacement of Ellsbury the singles hitter.
    What I meant with the, "I don't know" was more of a "I don't know what's up with Ellsbury." My bad. Who knows the Red Sox FO may try to keep Ellsbury seeing that he's probably considered one of the "sexy" players.

  15. #15
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    The only way they keep Ellsbury is if Ellsbury takes a one year deal here to try to build his value up again.. Like if we give him a QO and he accepts it. I really can't see us trying to sign him to a multi-year deal when we have Bradley and he isn't hitting near enough to play LF.

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