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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzbolt View Post
    Chalmers has won in every lvl High shcool College NBA.Its a fact Irving has won NOTHING.
    The only thing that is a fact is that you don't know what the **** you're talking about. He won a state title at his first high school, transferred to a tougher division and won a state title there too. His entire career up to Duke was nothing but record setting numbers, State Championships, MVP's and Gold Medals (U-18 Fiba Gold). He essentially did not play College, and then went to the Cavs.

    But word, I'm sure Mario Chalmers and Mike Conley would lead this dynamic Cleveland squad straight to the playoffs.


    For me:

    Cp3 / Parker / Westbrook / Curry / Irving / Rondo / D. Will

    Rose tbd.
    Last edited by tredigs; 04-05-2013 at 01:48 PM.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by topdog View Post
    His inconsistency kills it for me. Up until about January, he had had a very disappointing tenure with the Nets. A couple months don't erase the body of work imo.
    What about an entire career? D.Will has been in a funk but this isn't as if he's playing at this level for the first tine in his career. You say he's been in such a funk for so long but guess what he was the only PG a couple years ago to average 20 and 10 in the NBA and despite the fact that he did so on poor efficiency he was able to make those around him better.

    Respectfully disagree. The main forum overrates Holiday. Rubio barely gets mentioned these days. And, of course, fans of particular teams overrate their players.
    Feel free to disagree but Rubio has been getting MUCH more burn on here than Jrue has. And of course Jrue would start getting notoriety he's playing at an MIP level this season.

    Still, Rubio is better and in two fewer NBA seasons.
    Wellllllllll that's Rubio's nature. A passer, th.at's like me boasting Jrue is better at blocking shots than Rubio is. The difference in all honestly is negligible.

    If you're only tracking to the ASG, you are missing out on Rubio's best months when he has returned to full health.
    Well didn't you state Rubio had him beat? Jrue's D has actually improved statistically in more recent months.

    D to O differential disagrees (and is up to date)
    What differentials? Hope you're not talking about the actual up to date 82games.com numbers that I posted that shows that Jrue clearly blows Rubio out the water right? Not those numbers?

    Steals also heavily favor Rubio. But I'm sure you'll make some excuse about how steals are overrated... I mean who cares that a player should create a turnover and gain an extra possession?
    I am an ALLEN IVERSON FANBOY why on earth would I say steals is overrated? I am also a Ricky Rubio fan and I understand how much impact he has defensively for the Wolves, despite some statistics this year stating otherwise. They are different types of defenders, Jrue is better and more physical individual/perimeter defender who slacks off from time to time and Rubio is better at playing the lanes, reading passes before they happen and damn right robbing you in front of your eyes. Pick your poison but fact of the matter is statistically defensively Jrue has been better than Rubio this season.

    The Wolves at one point started Mickael Gelabale (fresh from France), Luke Ridnour, Greg Stiemsma, Derrick Williams and Ricky Rubio, but that's better than the Sixers regular starting lineup Ridnour has been playing out of position all year at SG. And as far as coaching, I could have sworn Sixers fans were talking about how great Doug Collins was just a year ago. Oh, and Adelman was out for awhile too.
    Operative phrase there "at one point".

    As for how great Doug was we were talking about the work he did with what he had to work with. You know our defensive anchor Iggy, our #1 option Williams and a steady locker room and on court veteran presence in Brand. This year Jrue had to take over every single one of those responsibilities. Point is Adlemen is still a better coach than Doug.

    Ditto for Rubio.

    No point in mentioning that Rubio isn't a great scorer.
    But there is a point in mentioning that he better at getting to line? That makes absolutely no sense. Why not be holistic instead of selective.

    We all know that. He has been improving in that regard however.
    Have you looked at Jrue's playmaking this year? He has improved RAPIDLY more so than Rubio has as a scorer.

    I am in no way grasping at straws. If you want to call their assist percentage more-or-less equal, fine. Defensively, you like your stat, but it's not up-to-date and raw numbers tell a different story.
    "My stat" is one of the best defensive stats around when trying to ascertain defensive value. The 82games.com #s are updated every Monday morning and they indicate that Jrue is more valuable on both ends of the floor than Rubio. Hell Jrue's opponent PER is also lower than that of Rubio's.

    It seems as if you don't understand the difference between the 82games.com numbers and the RAPM numbers. Do you?

    Getting to the line is important. Take it from a Minnesota fan - Garnett's inability to get to the line and get opposing bigs into foul trouble killed us.
    I don't have to take it from you I have had to endure every single season of 76ers ball since A.I. left. We're the worst team in the entire NBA over the last 4 years at getting to the line and its always a major beef I have with Holiday. I've made it known on the NBA forum on more than a couple occasions.

    What I am trying to understand is why Holiday scoring more points on twice as many shots makes him that much better than Rubio.
    Because he has the ability to do so? Chances are if Rubio attempts to score at the kind of volume that Jrue does he'd turn the ball over more than he currently does, shoot at a lower percentage than he currently does (largely due to the fact that defenses would start playing him differently), he'd be counter productive to his team's production since he'd be focusing less on what he's strong at and focusing more on what he's weak at.

    Jrue's biggest issue offensively is his inability to get to the line at a consistent rate as a result of poor shot selection. Thing is though he's capable of making more of those poor shots than Rubio is at making good/open ones.

    Place Rubio on the 76ers in the very same system which is ran currently do we become better or worse?

  3. #78
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    because i said so
    Quote Originally Posted by Kobe Bryant
    "You don't want Rondo? Send him my way," Kobe declared. "I love everything about him. Everything. I love his attitude, I love his chippiness, his edge, his intellect, his know-it-allness. All of it. That's what makes championship players.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownBears22 View Post
    Quite a few Cavs fans and casual posters had their lists:

    Rose
    Rondo
    Irving
    Rondo is a fringe top 5 PG, and honestly, I have him at 6 or 7.
    🐐



    Rocky Top youíll always be
    Home sweet home to me
    Good olí Rocky Top
    Rocky Top Tennessee

  5. #80
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    Kyrie is flashy but hasn't proven he can lead his team to win yet. Lets wait until he gets his team to the playoffs before naming him a top 3 PG.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tmath View Post
    Kyrie is flashy but hasn't proven he can lead his team to win yet. Lets wait until he gets his team to the playoffs before naming him a top 3 PG.
    This is a team sport. KG was a top 3 PF and couldn't lead his team into the playoffs. Same for Kevin Love. This is a team sport there are tonnes of occasions where players were top 3 at their positions and their teams weren't in the playoffs. I'm not saying that Kyrie is a top 3 PG but to rule him out because of his team's place in the ranks really doesn't hold much water. You can place damn near any PG on that team and they'd miss the post season. Place Kyrie on the Clips, Bulls, Celts, Nets, Spurs, Thunder etc and they'd ALL be playoff teams. If you place any of those teams PGs on the Cavs would they be in the post season? If no then what's your point?

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tmath View Post
    Kyrie is flashy but hasn't proven he can lead his team to win yet. Lets wait until he gets his team to the playoffs before naming him a top 3 PG.
    Top 3 doesn't imply a specific level of production or impact. It just means that he's producing at rate better than all but two other PGs.

    Taking Kyrie's inability to stay on the court into consideration, I could see how some say he's a a top 6 pg rather than top 3. But a healthy Kyrie to me is the third best Pg when he's on the floor.


    Quote Originally Posted by rhymeratic View Post
    Shoot I'd even put up Glen Rice and Mitch Richmond in their prime at or slightly better than James. Even Glenn Robinson who is a forgotten beast.


    Quote Originally Posted by LoveMeOrHateMe View Post
    Kobe GOAT LOL
    ^Finally got one.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashcuff View Post
    Place Rubio on the 76ers in the very same system which is ran currently do we become better or worse?
    Swash, I think you bring up some good points. I think that this year it is totally fair to put Jrue ahead of rubio, but that is mostly due to him coming back from his injury imo.

    I don't think that looking solely at this years numbers will show rubio's true talent. I will point out that last year when rubio was off the court we allowed 7.3 more points per 100 possessions (compared to Jrue's 5.2 this year). To me Rubio didn't suddenly become worse defensively, he just was recovering from his injury and clearly wasn't the same player right away. This year, nod to Jrue. If we are talking both healthy for all next season who would you take?

  9. #84
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    he's not top-5.
    Tottenham Hotspur
    San Francisco Warriors
    San Francisco Giants
    San Francisco 49ers

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Swash, I think you bring up some good points. I think that this year it is totally fair to put Jrue ahead of rubio, but that is mostly due to him coming back from his injury imo.

    I don't think that looking solely at this years numbers will show rubio's true talent. I will point out that last year when rubio was off the court we allowed 7.3 more points per 100 possessions (compared to Jrue's 5.2 this year). To me Rubio didn't suddenly become worse defensively, he just was recovering from his injury and clearly wasn't the same player right away. This year, nod to Jrue. If we are talking both healthy for all next season who would you take?
    Dude I love me some Rubio and if someone says that Rubio is going to be the better/more valuable player down the line I'd probably agree because I can see where they're coming from. I'm well aware of his on/off numbers last year they were amazing he lead all guards in that respect not just PGs.

    Both healthy next season depends on too many factors. My gut tells me Rubio because of what the Timberwolves has in place though, but no one thought Jrue would improve as much as he has this season. Not farfetched to think that if he can work on his shot selection, getting to the line more and cutting down on the turnovers that he'd improve more. Based on everything right now though I'd probably say Rubio one year wiser/maturer would be the better player by a hair.

    My beef with the other poster however was the fact that he was attempting to downplay Jrue's value in order to elevate that of Rubio's while posting untruths and grasping at things that weren't there.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashcuff View Post
    Dude I love me some Rubio and if someone says that Rubio is going to be the better/more valuable player down the line I'd probably agree because I can see where they're coming from. I'm well aware of his on/off numbers last year they were amazing he lead all guards in that respect not just PGs.

    Both healthy next season depends on too many factors. My gut tells me Rubio because of what the Timberwolves has in place though, but no one thought Jrue would improve as much as he has this season. Not farfetched to think that if he can work on his shot selection, getting to the line more and cutting down on the turnovers that he'd improve more. Based on everything right now though I'd probably say Rubio one year wiser/maturer would be the better player by a hair.

    My beef with the other poster however was the fact that he was attempting to downplay Jrue's value in order to elevate that of Rubio's while posting untruths and grasping at things that weren't there.
    Totally fair, I was just wondering your overall opinion on the two outside of this year. I personally would say Rubio but agree that it will be very close and there are a ton of factors. Jrue is playing very well, I didn't think he would develop quite like this so I am certainly surprised.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownBears22 View Post
    Agreed. Jrue should be considered up there too. But I am biased because I like pure PG's not just volume shooting and pass second PG's
    Curry > Jrue
    Quote Originally Posted by freejimmer View Post
    Jimmer still being BLACK BALLED by the illuminati/homeboys...
    Quote Originally Posted by freejimmer View Post
    If Jimmer were to be given free reign offensively, the team would basically quit on the organization out of jealousy and envy. The white man is the minority in this game and the black players will be damned if the white man shows him up at his own game. Similar situation happening with Kevin Love, the team has to surround him with foreigners and whites because black players won't succumb to the greatness that is Kevin Love.

  13. #88
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    JHS must be tough... Kyrie is a top 5 pg?

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by bucketss View Post
    smh even when healthy he isn't 1st stop being a homer.
    liar... who head to head can out play him at his postion ? NO ONE....NO ONE... REMEMBER THAT! HE BLEW CP3 OUT THE WATER...THAT SAID IT ALL... I CAN DOG PILE I.E ...YOU KNOW YOU GOT AN ELITE PLAYER WHEN AFTER YOU DRAFT HIM TEAMS ARE LOOKING FOR A COPY IN THE DRAFT. NO ONE WAS LOOKING FOR ANOTHER IRVING OR CP3 OR PARKER...EVERYONE IS LOOKING FOR THE NEXT JAMES, KG , OR DERRICK ROSE...HAVE A NICE DAY

  15. #90
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    Wall will win more and will be better then Irving Quote me.

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