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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruckus16969 View Post
    Why? He is our best hitter right now. We wont loose that year offer service time if we send him down for 20 days sometime in the next 3 years. We need his bat now. We need to get off to a good start
    Calm your horses. I think you're giving way too much credit due to his amazing ST stats.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AI4 View Post
    Calm your horses. I think you're giving way too much credit due to his amazing ST stats.
    If thats the case send him down and and we get the xtra year

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AI4 View Post
    Calm your horses. I think you're giving way too much credit due to his amazing ST stats.
    With Ortiz out, if the Sox have a poor start - say .425, who is going to be tuning in? Whoever isn't would be more likely to tune in to see the kid.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by AI4 View Post
    Keep JBJ down for 20 days so we have club control until '19 and if he's still mashing and Ortiz is still out, call him up but only if he's going to be an everyday player. We should not derail his progress by calling him up to play every other day.
    Chad Finn suggested something along these lines. Basically his idea was that Bradley starts in PAW for this reason AND because you take 2-3 weeks to further evaluate other options like Carp, Overbay, etc. If you like none of what you see then bring him up. Pretty level headed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ruckus16969 View Post
    Why? He is our best hitter right now. We wont loose that year offer service time if we send him down for 20 days sometime in the next 3 years. We need his bat now. We need to get off to a good start
    So it'd be better to sit him in the minors during two years in which he projects to be the starter than for 20 days in a season that he SHOULD be no more than a backup? Doesn't make sense.

    On top of that, if you don't sit him NEXT year, when the pressure will be even heavier to include him in the Opening Day lineup let alone the roster, then he'll be a super-2 and Boras gets an extra shot at arbitration.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    With Ortiz out, if the Sox have a poor start - say .425, who is going to be tuning in? Whoever isn't would be more likely to tune in to see the kid.
    I basically agree though I like Finn's approach more than starting him in the lineup every day from April 1.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSoxtober View Post
    I basically agree though I like Finn's approach more than starting him in the lineup every day from April 1.
    I wrote the same thing here 2-3 weeks ago, but as it's becoming more clear every day that there will be a long delay before Ortiz is back, it makes his breaking camp with the ML team a bona fide possibility for JBJ. I won't be upset either way, but I would be more likely to tune in if JBJ was playing in April.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 03-21-2013 at 11:54 AM.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    With Ortiz out, if the Sox have a poor start - say .425, who is going to be tuning in? Whoever isn't would be more likely to tune in to see the kid.
    Slight ratings bump, but I doubt the average fan has the kid on their radar. Not to mention that if bringing the kid up means the difference in the season we are in big trouble.

    It has been said a couple times "the Hell with getting the extra year" but look at what an extra year means for Ellsbury. Last year for him pretty much blew, and we get another year to use him and hopefully get some affordable value.

    I also am not loving kids coming up before their time because they are "hot" at the moment. Thats the tail wagging the dog.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MG956 View Post
    Slight ratings bump, but I doubt the average fan has the kid on their radar.
    In the absence of the truly great phenom, a Prospect Hill in Waltham can look like Mt. Prospect in Holderness NH.

    Not to mention that if bringing the kid up means the difference in the season we are in big trouble.
    On the offensive side of the ball absent a healthy Ortiz we are IMO in great trouble.

    It has been said a couple times "the Hell with getting the extra year" but look at what an extra year means for Ellsbury.
    Just because he starts the year doesn't mean he can't go back down to the Minors later on.

    Last year for him pretty much blew, and we get another year to use him and hopefully get some affordable value.
    I was making parallel arguments to this 2-3 weeks ago, but Ortiz looks to be gone for at least another 6-7 weeks best case. Casual fans do seem more interested in offense, winning, and the new kid, then losing, pitching, and Lackey's resurrection.

    I also am not loving kids coming up before their time because they are "hot" at the moment. Thats the tail wagging the dog.
    Surely, in normal times this is wrong, and they may well put him in the Minors and I won't be upset in the least. In the most incredibly dead ST we've had since the bad years of Ralph Houk and Kevin Kennedy one has to talk about something, and this is a topic to discuss.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 03-21-2013 at 03:17 PM.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  8. #23
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    I read that we could, in theory, start the season with JBJ then stop his clock and retain him the extra year by sending him doen for 20 days. Problem with this is, what if he's so good there's no reason to send him down?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AI4 View Post
    I read that we could, in theory, start the season with JBJ then stop his clock and retain him the extra year by sending him doen for 20 days. Problem with this is, what if he's so good there's no reason to send him down?
    I read we could call him up April 15th, which isn't even 20 days. I forget where. Either way I don't trust us to put him back down for 20 days after he joins the major league club.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    I read we could call him up April 15th, which isn't even 20 days. I forget where. Either way I don't trust us to put him back down for 20 days after he joins the major league club.
    Exactly. If I had a vote or say in the matter, I'd keep him down 20 days to start the season.

    Only call him up:

    - IF he's still raking at the start of the minor league season. Aside from the #'s he'll also have to show that he's indeed ready since I'm assuming he was told to work on some specific things they wanted to see him improve.
    - IF he's still needed due to Ortiz being out and IF he'll be an everyday player, you don't want to stunt his development by playing him every other day.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AI4 View Post
    I read that we could, in theory, start the season with JBJ then stop his clock and retain him the extra year by sending him doen for 20 days. Problem with this is, what if he's so good there's no reason to send him down?
    Honestly, I hold out no real hope for this season in terms of the playoffs. I'd much rather the team leave JBJr down in the minors so that they can protect that extra year of control AND avoid Super Two status.

    And actually, I wouldn't say "what if he's so good there's no reason to send him down". I'd tweak that to say "What if he's so good that there'd be a fan revolt if the team tried to send him down."

    Leave him in the minors and protect their long term investment in the kid!!! The average joe fan who has no clue who JBJr is isn't going to care if a prospect starts the season at AA or AAA.

  12. #27
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    At least Bradley's biological age shouldn't be held against him:



    http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/ba...t-going-scare-

    Rob Bradford:

    FORT MYERS, Fla. -- The relative youth of Jackie Bradley Jr. seemed like somewhat of a novelty. That was until David Ortiz put it in perspective.

    "What were you doing when you were 22?"

    Jackie Bradley Jr. will turn 23 years old 19 days into the 2013 season.

    The question was posed toward Ortiz in relation to where Bradley was in his life: a 22-year-old, on the cusp of making a major league roster less than two years after being drafted out of college.

    "I was hitting bombs in the big leagues," the designated hitter quickly responded.

    To be accurate, Ortiz hit nine home runs as a 22-year-old rookie before succumbing to a hamate bone injury. But before the setback, he was making his mark at the same age Bradley finds himself now.

    The point is, this isn't exactly 19-year-old Bryce Harper forcing the world of baseball to do a double-take. Bradley is young, but not that young.

    "Every organization has a different way of looking at it, but to me if a guy is ready, if he's 20 years old, he's 22 or 25, if he's ready and there's an opportunity that's fine," said Red Sox outfielder Shane Victorino. "But to me it's not a benefit for a guy to come up at 22 and sit there. But to me 22, nowadays, in this game, is not young."

    Truth be told, if Bradley does make the Opening Day roster he will only be 22 years old for 19 days before turning 23. And it's somewhat eye-opening when looking around the Red Sox clubhouse to compare and contrast where some of the others on the team were when they hit their 23rd birthday:

    Mike Napoli: Just finished Single-A season in Rancho Cucamonga.

    Dustin Pedroia: Five days after birthday was called up to big leagues for first time.

    Stephen Drew: Spring training for what would eventually be first season in majors.

    Will Middlebrooks: Just finished last full season in the minors, advancing from Double-A to Triple-A at the end of the year.

    Shane Victorino: Just finished first major league stint (36 games with San Diego).

    Jose Iglesias: Turned 23 on Jan. 5 of this year.

    Jacoby Ellsbury: Just finished Double-A, season before being promoted.

    Jonny Gomes: Just finished first MLB stint (8 games).

    Jarrod Saltalamacchia: Had spent year in major leagues after being called up on 22nd birthday. Started the year in Triple-A, called up the week before his birthday.

    Torey Lovullo: Called up for first time two months after turning 23 (made it to majors year after being drafted).

    David Ortiz: Had just played 86 games in the big leagues for the Twins (9 homers).

    Yet there are warnings from those who have put 23-years-old in their rearview mirrors. The consensus among Bradley's spring training teammates is that he's ready. But with every bit of praise, there are lessons ready to be passed on.

    "There are times I'm still figuring things out. This game you learn every day," Ortiz said. "Let me tell you, if I have the mentality I have now when I was 22, we're talking about a different story. I really, really, really started figuring things out when I got to Boston."

    The most prevalent piece of advice the players offer when it comes to finding success as a 23-year-old is finding a role that will put the player in the lineup every single day. Saltalamacchia, for instance, thought he had hit his stride when he was called up on his 22nd birthday. But once the playing time changed, so did his results.

    "When I got called up I was ready and I was prepared. I was playing well. When I was traded over to Texas is when I struggled a little bit just because I was playing two days on, two days off. For a guy like that to be in the big leagues, he has to play," he said. "That's the biggest thing for young players, they don't know how to play two days on, two days off or be in a different role. You want to make that guy as comfortable as possible. The biggest thing is just playing. In Atlanta I knew my role, and in Texas I didn't know my role. That's tough for a young player."

    The same went for Victorino, whose introduction to the big leagues came at 22 when he was selected by San Diego in the Rule 5 Draft (meaning he had to remain on the major league roster all season in order to stay with the organization). He saw how the inconsistent playing time can affect a young player, having gone through it himself and then witnessing it when his return bumped outfielder Domonic Brown to the bench in Philadelphia.

    "If somebody's ready, somebody's ready," the outfielder said. "And the only way you find out is if you give the opportunity to do it. In Jackie's situation, I think he's put himself in a good situation to get that opportunity. But in his situation, you're not going to bring him up to the big leagues and have him sit there, either. For me getting there as a Rule 5 kid at 22, playing once a week, was tough. But I was a Rule 5 guy. That was different."

    Then there is just understanding how much improvement is coming around the corner.

    The 20-year-old Xander Bogaerts doesn't know what 22 is going to be like, but he does understand how much his body changed in the past two years. ("It's amazing the difference," he said.) And Middlebrooks, now 24, can even take stock of what life was like two years ago to where he finds himself now.

    "These have been the biggest two years of baseball in my life," Middlebrooks said. "It's not only the major leagues, but it's Boston. Boston is a hard place to play in. I remember when I came up, [Kevin Youkilis] told me and Pedey told me that it takes a special player to play here, so you better learn to get thick skin and get tough or they're going to eat you alive. That's something I learned quick. I like the pressure to win here. A lot of people, that scares them because they're afraid to fail. I learned to fail plenty in the minor leagues."

    "What [Mike] Trout and Harper did last year was pretty amazing," Pedroia said. "For me, (at 20 years old) I was a sophomore in college and Trout is second in MVP voting. I was just worried about doing my laundry on my own. It's pretty remarkable what they did."

    The wave of warnings and advice won't stop for Bradley.

    He is hitting .444, continuing to show he can most likely help a major league team. The outfielder has convinced his elders he is capable of making the jump. The vibe you get is: There are 22-year-olds and then there is Jackie Bradley Jr.

    "I feel like he's more mature than I was at 22," Middlebrooks said. "I still knew everything he knows, but as far as a player, he's more advanced than I was. His approach is very solid. He'll spit on pitches on the black all day long. I couldn't do that. I was happy if I got to swing at a fastball."

    "Just getting to know Jackie a little bit, he doesn't seem like a 22-year-old," Pedroia observed. "He's pretty special."

    ################################################## ##########

    I know it's pre FA era, but no play at age 23:

    no Fred Lynn/Dwight Evans (Rice was 22) in 1975
    no Clemens in 1986....

    More recently: no Pedroia, Ellsbury, or Lester in 2007
    Last edited by bagwell368; 03-22-2013 at 08:56 AM.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  13. #28
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    What does super 2 mean exactly

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruckus16969 View Post
    What does super 2 mean exactly
    Here is a pointer: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...o-be-2139.html
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Honestly, I hold out no real hope for this season in terms of the playoffs.
    Agree

    I'd much rather the team leave JBJr down in the minors so that they can protect that extra year of control AND avoid Super Two status.
    Perhaps. The question is given the massive vacuum of interesting topics, will the Sox triumvirate be confident that ratings won't continue to slide w/o Bradley to make up for Ortiz's absence?

    The average joe fan who has no clue who JBJr is isn't going to care if a prospect starts the season at AA or AAA.
    Are you watching? Not only is Bradley a topic among serious Sox fans, but:

    Bradly is the #1 Red Sox topic on both radio stations and has been for the past week. Bradley is being closely covered by the Globe and Herald as well, and has leaked onto local TV (4/5/7) as the major topic. I don't know where you qualify the people that pay attention to those outlets - the vast middle is what I could call it. Maybe few pink hats, but a lot of people that have Red Sox hats not in pink, and know a good amount of the players on the 2004 team.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 03-22-2013 at 10:14 AM.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

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