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View Poll Results: How is Holidays D

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  • Good

    13 61.90%
  • Average

    7 33.33%
  • Below Average

    1 4.76%
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  1. #1
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    What Does everyone think of Jrue Holiday Defensively

    Okay so i was having an argument with bagwell (no surprise)
    And he said that Jrue Holiday is Below Average defensively
    This outright floored me because Jrue Holiday is one of the better Defensive PGs in the NBA today imo.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevcballer View Post
    Okay so i was having an argument with bagwell (no surprise)
    And he said that Jrue Holiday is Below Average defensively
    This outright floored me because Jrue Holiday is one of the better Defensive PGs in the NBA today imo.
    It's not an argument, I'm giving facts and observations, and you can't handle a 76'er being criticized so you've gone to insults and emotionalism.

    I said he was excellent on the D vs the Celts in the playoffs last year, but in the 3 full games and 2 partial games I've seen this year, he has not been impressive, in fact he's been below average. The DRtg stat backs me up on last years playoffs and this year's regular season thus far. I guess the truth isn't enough for a zealot.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    It's not an argument, I'm giving facts and observations, and you can't handle a 76'er being criticized so you've gone to insults and emotionalism.

    I said he was excellent on the D vs the Celts in the playoffs last year, but in the 3 full games and 2 partial games I've seen this year, he has not been impressive, in fact he's been below average. The DRtg stat backs me up on last years playoffs and this year's regular season thus far. I guess the truth isn't enough for a zealot.
    Lol.. this guy.. you went right to this thread right away and also i noticed you didn't reply to swash cuff when he said the same thing i said (swashcuff being way more basketball knowledgeable than i am btw but you had an issue with me saying it. in fact you have an issue with everything i say its like you pick out my comments and attack me and its getting old the purpose of this thread was not to insult you it was to get a general unbiased opinion from the majority of NBA fans.
    As for the Bolded you sound utterly insane.
    I attack the sixers fanbase for overrating players on a regular basis Turner being the most common people make him sound like a future allstar when at best he has been an Average starter this season and at wrost has looked cringe worthy depending on the night

    I consistently Booed lou willams and wanted him out of town he has to be the most Overrated guard in the nba right now and shot us out of countless games
    And nick young is no better dorell wright has been a disappointment and so has J rich dont act as if im some blind fan with no grasp on where players on my team rank

  4. #4
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    I haven't seen him all season but he's #44 in defensive rankings in the NBA guards. Not exactly a good thing.

    I do see he is #21 in stls and 27 in blks, and that's where you could get defense mixed up. B/c that's prbly help D he provides or doubles that turn into steals.
    Last edited by KniCks4LiFe; 12-31-2012 at 12:17 AM.
    when they forget what Kevin Long saids

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by KniCks4LiFe View Post
    I haven't seen him all season but he's #44 in defensive rankings in the NBA guards. Not exactly a good thing.

    I do see he is #21 in stls and 27 in blks, and that's where you could get defense mixed up. B/c that's prbly help D he provides or doubles that turn into steals.
    Acutally thats kind of the reason we are having this argument I dont believe the stats tell the whole story watching the games i feel that hes much better on that end that stats tend to say but thanks for the honesty

    The thing is the sixers as a team are poor on D this year and he is our best player on that end by a considerable margin last year the stats said he was a better player on D than this year and it seems like no coincede that the team was much better on that end as well
    what im trying to say is i think defensive stats are too easily scewed by the team around the player
    Last edited by Alayla; 12-31-2012 at 12:38 AM.

  6. #6
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    He's about average. Below average is a bit of a stretch, even though he still makes a lot of dumb mistakes defensively. He's not horrible though.

    But he has all around game. Give me a pg that's putting up his numbers across the board and I can live with average defense....

  7. #7
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    Elite at the PG position in today's NBA sounds about right. Its no surprise that Bagwell will say those things about Jrue though.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    It's not an argument, I'm giving facts and observations, and you can't handle a 76'er being criticized so you've gone to insults and emotionalism.

    I said he was excellent on the D vs the Celts in the playoffs last year, but in the 3 full games and 2 partial games I've seen this year, he has not been impressive, in fact he's been below average. The DRtg stat backs me up on last years playoffs and this year's regular season thus far. I guess the truth isn't enough for a zealot.
    What do you think of Carlos Boozer's defense this year and last post season? Better yet Kyle Lowry's in his Houston days?

    You do realize that Jrue played with arguably the best perimeter defender in the NBA last season right? I don't need to tell you that that player will directly affect Jrue's DRtg especially given the fact that those players logged the most minutes on the floor and spent more minutes playing together than any other two Philadelphia teammates. You do realize that we almost amnestied our best interior defender who also had a big impact on that DRtg AND logged a large amount of minutes alongside Jrue you DO realize this right?

    Using DRtg as your argument as to why Jrue isn't a good defender is about as poor as it gets dude especially for someone who claims to have a profound understanding of advanced metrics. Try again.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevcballer View Post
    Lol.. this guy.. you went right to this thread right away and also i noticed you didn't reply to swash cuff when he said the same thing i said (swashcuff being way more basketball knowledgeable than i am btw but you had an issue with me saying it. in fact you have an issue with everything i say its like you pick out my comments and attack me and its getting old the purpose of this thread was not to insult you it was to get a general unbiased opinion from the majority of NBA fans.
    As for the Bolded you sound utterly insane.
    I attack the sixers fanbase for overrating players on a regular basis Turner being the most common people make him sound like a future allstar when at best he has been an Average starter this season and at wrost has looked cringe worthy depending on the night

    I consistently Booed lou willams and wanted him out of town he has to be the most Overrated guard in the nba right now and shot us out of countless games
    And nick young is no better dorell wright has been a disappointment and so has J rich dont act as if im some blind fan with no grasp on where players on my team rank
    I didn't even read this before I posted in this thread or replied to Bagwell

    Where did this stem from?

  10. #10
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    Jrue Holiday is a good defender and an even better person.

  11. #11
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    Average to me. Better than the stats indicate, but he's inconsistent and very average more often than not. He has the ability to be an elite defensive PG, he shows it sometimes, but he's only average for now. He really needs to become more assertive and aggressive on defense like he has on offense in order to become a great defender.

    He doesn't get any help either though. Usually it takes great team defense and a full team game plan to shut down the great PGs of the league. Jrue is consistently given the task of having to stick the opposing PG with very little team defense help. That's why you see opposing PGs put up big numbers against him, even when it feels like he's playing pretty good defense when your watching the game. That's also why the stats don't favor him.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Starks View Post
    He's about average. Below average is a bit of a stretch, even though he still makes a lot of dumb mistakes defensively. He's not horrible though.

    But he has all around game. Give me a pg that's putting up his numbers across the board and I can live with average defense....
    There are 30 teams in the NBA, he ranks 44 in guards. That's not below average? He's #21 and #27 in total blks and stls, really homie?
    when they forget what Kevin Long saids

    I follow rules and appreciate the ignore button

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixer04fan View Post
    Average to me. Better than the stats indicate, but he's inconsistent and very average more often than not. He has the ability to be an elite defensive PG, he shows it sometimes, but he's only average for now. He really needs to become more assertive and aggressive on defense like he has on offense in order to become a great defender.

    He doesn't get any help either though. Usually it takes great team defense and a full team game plan to shut down the great PGs of the league. Jrue is consistently given the task of having to stick the opposing PG with very little team defense help. That's why you see opposing PGs put up big numbers against him, even when it feels like he's playing pretty good defense when your watching the game. That's also why the stats don't favor him.
    Spot on post. I also think his vastly increased role offensively has caused him to slack a little on defense. He is a capable defender though.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KniCks4LiFe View Post
    There are 30 teams in the NBA, he ranks 44 in guards. That's not below average? He's #21 and #27 in total blks and stls, really homie?

    Once again though just looking at the stats doesn't really tell you much.
    people need to understand that stats and even more so with defensive stats are not suppose to be the end all be all they need context and without context they are merely guidelines. There are things that dont show up on the stat Sheet and this is more so True on D than anything else.

  15. #15
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    Just to give you guys a quick idea as how valuable Jrue is to our team defensively this season (I'm going to ignore prior years where he's been just stellar) I'd just state this. When Jrue comes off the floor we give up 7.0 more points per 100 possessions than we do with him on the floor. That is the 2nd biggest differencial in the entire league among PGs. The biggest differential belongs to Mario Chalmers (7.4).

    In terms of DRAPM among starting PGs Jrue ranks 4th among starting PGs.

    Code:
    Eric Bledsoe	1.5
    Jason Kidd	1.3
    Ricky Rubio	1.1
    Stephen Curry	1
    Mike Conley	0.9
    Jrue Holiday	0.5
    Chris Paul	0.4
    Tony Parker	0.4
    Derek Fisher	0.4
    Jameer Nelson	0.2
    Mario Chalmers	0.2
    Rajon Rondo	0
    Kyle Lowry	-0.1
    George Hill	-0.1
    Jeremy Lin	-0.1
    Mickael Pietrus	-0.4
    Kemba Walker	-0.5
    Kirk Hinrich	-0.5
    Jamaal Tinsley	-0.6
    Jarrett Jack	-0.6
    Devin Harris	-0.8
    Jose Barea	-0.9
    Royal Ivey	-0.9
    Westbrook	-1
    Damian Lillard	-1
    Steve Blake	-1.1
    Ty Lawson	-1.3
    Jose Calderon	-1.3
    Isaiah Thomas	-1.3
    Quincy Miller	-1.3
    Luke Ridnour	-1.4
    Daniel Gibson	-1.4
    Goran Dragic	-1.8
    Chris Duhon	-1.8
    Jennings	-1.9
    Aaron Brooks	-1.9
    Andre Miller	-2
    Jerryd Bayless	-2
    Will Bynum	-2.1
    Darius Morris	-2.1
    Raymond Felton	-2.6
    Nate Robinson	-2.7
    Darren Collison	-2.7
    D.J. Augustin	-2.7
    Leandro Barbosa	-3.1
    Mo Williams	-3.3
    Deron Williams	-3.6
    I have to admit I don't have Jrue's synergy #s so I won't be able to judge his D along those lines but from my eye test this season (I think I must have seen all but 4 games if I'm not mistaken and two of those games Jrue didn't play) his D has been very good, could have been better but just like on offense he gets a little bit carried away defensively and misses his assignments on occasion but he's still only 22 and its his first year in this role of being his team's #1 defensive perimeter player so he can grow in that regard but he's still solid nonetheless.

    IMO this season of all the PGs I've watched play only one has set himself apart from the rest defensively and that's the Bledsoe. He's the cream of the crop right now in my eyes but Jrue is no slouch either.

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