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  1. #1
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    Does Kobe surpass these players with 1 more F-MVP?


    Hakeem- Shaq-Duncan-Bird


    I notice that when ever Kobe comes up in debates as to where he ranks, these names are mentioned a lot. Does he surpass them if let's say he wins Finals-MVP with 28/6/5 44%?

    With a total of 6 Championships & 3 Finals MVP I believe so, I think he removes himself from those debates and enters one vs players such as Wilt, Magic Kareem & Russell( but thats a different topic)

  2. #2
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    He's already surpassed Hakeem, and to a degree Tim.

    But yes, Shaq and Larry are next on the all-time list. Right now:


    1. Michael
    2. Magic
    3. Kareem
    4. Bill
    5. Wilt
    6. Larry
    7. Shaquille
    8. Kobe
    9. Tim
    10. Hakeem

  3. #3
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    No he doesn't

    Irregardless of team success someone like Shaq had a vastly superior career in terms of actual production and performances.

    He was just a flat out better player like Jordan was.

    There is nothing Kobe can do to put him on equal grounds with him let alone to surpass him.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew32 View Post
    No he doesn't

    Irregardless of team success someone like Shaq had a vastly superior career in terms of actual production and performances.

    He was just a flat out better player like Jordan was.

    There is nothing Kobe can do to put him on equal grounds with him let alone to surpass him.
    You're saying Longevity holds absolutely no importance in the National Basketball Association?

    Shaq was Shaq for 13 yrs, and then was a ring chaser and a shell of his former self his last 6 yrs.


    Shaq's prime >>> Kobe's prime


    But when you take everything into account in terms of accolades, achievements, championships, records broken etc, Kobe wins this one.



    When you're ranking the greatest players of all time, it's not just the great 4-5 yrs of dominant prime that that individual had and then you leave it at that. It's the ENTIRE BODY OF WORK.


    You and I may have different definitions and criteria for all-time rankings, but that's how I go by it.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew32 View Post
    No he doesn't

    Irregardless of team success someone like Shaq had a vastly superior career in terms of actual production and performances.

    He was just a flat out better player like Jordan was.

    There is nothing Kobe can do to put him on equal grounds with him let alone to surpass him.
    priceless

  6. #6
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    I'd still take all 4 ahead of Kobe unless Kobe has a Godly season this year.


    "I AM THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFuffcVDKKg
    lol


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by KB-Pau-DH2012 View Post
    You're saying Longevity holds absolutely no importance in the National Basketball Association?

    Shaq was Shaq for 13 yrs.

    Shaq's prime >>> Kobe's prime

    But when you take everything into account in terms of accolades, achievements, championships, records broken etc, Kobe wins this one.

    When you're ranking the greatest players of all time, it's not just the great 4-5 yrs of dominant prime that that individual had and then you leave it at that. It's the ENTIRE BODY OF WORK.

    You and I may have different definitions and criteria for all-time rankings, but that's how I go by it.
    Shaq has better longevity then Kobe.

    He has double the number of Super-Star level years and more/equal All-Star level years.

    The fact that he had a much better Peak and Prime.

    -Was a vastly superior Finals performer
    -Led more teams to the Finals
    -Won more Rings as the #1
    -Was a much more productive, impactful and consistent playoff performer over 1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 13 years.

    Doesn't matter?

    4-5 dominant years?
    Shaq was 2nd in MVP voting in 1995.
    Shaq was 2nd in MVP voting in 1995.

    Again Shaq blows Kobe out of the water in terms of production and impact over pretty much any number of years and was a much more consistent performer.

    Shaq has about 9+ years better then Kobe's Peak.

    Shaq is a Top 5 All-Time player and GOAT Candidate.
    Kobe is not even in the same ballpark as him and never will be.
    Last edited by Andrew32; 10-08-2012 at 10:06 PM.

  8. #8
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    I have Kobe 9th right behind Timmy D. I don't think he really goes any higher.
    Spurs Sim league
    2 time Champion 653-331

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by b'sceltspatssox View Post
    i'd still take all 4 ahead of kobe unless kobe has a godly season this year.
    +1


    Quote Originally Posted by rhymeratic View Post
    Shoot I'd even put up Glen Rice and Mitch Richmond in their prime at or slightly better than James. Even Glenn Robinson who is a forgotten beast.


    Quote Originally Posted by LoveMeOrHateMe View Post
    Kobe GOAT LOL
    ^Finally got one.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew32 View Post
    Shaq has better longevity then Kobe.

    He has double the number of Super-Star level years and more/equal All-Star level years.

    The fact that he had a much better Peak and Prime.

    -Was a vastly superior Finals performer
    -Led more teams to the Finals
    -Won more Rings as the #1
    -Was a much more productive, impactful and consistent playoff performer over 1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 13 years.

    Doesn't matter?

    4-5 dominant years?
    Shaq was 2nd in MVP voting in 1995.
    Shaq was 2nd in MVP voting in 1995.

    Again Shaq blows Kobe out of the water in terms of production and impact over pretty much any number of years and was a much more consistent performer.

    Shaq has about 9+ years better then Kobe's Peak.

    1995 - MJ came back 65 games into the regular season and that Bulls team lost to Shaq's Magic in the Semis. If MJ never took time off, Hakeem would be without 1 or maybe even 2 rings and Shaq probably wouldn't have made a singles finals appearance in his tenure in Orlando. That's the only reason really why Shaq was 2nd in MVP voting, MJ would have bumped him down to 3rd.


    Shaq was a superior finals performer against the likes of Smits, Big Smooth Sam Perkins, Dale Davis, Mutombo, Matt Geiger, Tod Maccollough, Aaron Williams, Ericka Dampier, Ben Wallace. (These are all the centers that Shaq went up against in the finals), but we all saw when he faced a real center in Hakeem in the 95 Finals. Shaq struggled against the Marquee West teams with foul trouble when he used to go up against Floppy Divac and the Twin Towers of Duncan & Robinson, and Kobe was basically the MVP of the first 3 rounds. You know it, everybody's momma knows it.

    And Shaq had trouble closing games during those times. In come Kobe doing everything in the 4th and the dagger shooters like Shaw, Fish, Fox and Horry

  11. #11
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    kobe has had a better career than bird.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruno87 View Post
    kobe has had a better career than bird.
    I think so as well.
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
    - Michael Jordan

    Thanks MJ-Bulls for the picture.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KB-Pau-DH2012 View Post
    1995 - MJ came back 65 games into the regular season and that Bulls team lost to Shaq's Magic in the Semis. If MJ never took time off, Hakeem would be without 1 or maybe even 2 rings and Shaq probably wouldn't have made a singles finals appearance in his tenure in Orlando. That's the only reason really why Shaq was 2nd in MVP voting, MJ would have bumped him down to 3rd.

    Shaq was a superior finals performer against the likes of Smits, Big Smooth Sam Perkins, Dale Davis, Mutombo, Matt Geiger, Tod Maccollough, Aaron Williams, Ericka Dampier, Ben Wallace. (These are all the centers that Shaq went up against in the finals), but we all saw when he faced a real center in Hakeem in the 95 Finals. Shaq struggled against the Marquee West teams with foul trouble when he used to go up against Floppy Divac and the Twin Towers of Duncan & Robinson, and Kobe was basically the MVP of the first 3 rounds. You know it, everybody's momma knows it.
    You're wasting your time with excuses.
    Let me make this simple for you so you can understand

    If you compare Shaq and Kobe over their best 5-13 years in the playoffs.
    Shaq absolutely ANNIHLATES Kobe in terms of production / actual performances, impact and consistency.

    He has about 10-12 Super-Star level seasons where Kobe has about 4-6.

    If Kobe ends up having 1-2 more All-Star level seasons on the whole do you really think that would make up for the MASSIVE and absolutely enormous difference in the quality between their Peak / Prime's and the majority of their careers?

    It's just not logical.
    Shaq's playoff career is pretty similar in value to Jordan's

    He was one of the best 3 playoff performers in the history of the game and the GOAT Finals performer.

    Also quit your bulls*** excuses.
    Kobe was never the MVP in the early 00's.

    He wasn't even better then Prime Pippen in 00 and 02 and you wanna argue he was equal/better then Shaq?

    00 Kobe = 21 / 4.5 / 4.5apg on 51%TS
    02 Kobe = 26 / 6 / 4.5apg on 52%TS
    92 Pippen = 20 / 9 / 7apg on 54%TS (with way better defensive impact).

    Also Shaq lost in the 95 Finals because his supporting cast got outplayed.
    In his 3rd year he practically played Peak Hakeem to a wash and had an absolutely incredible Finals performance.

    Shaq outplayed Hakeem on the whole in their h2h matchups from 93-95 and dominated Prime Hakeem in 96 and 97.

  14. #14
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    Already passed Bird. The others he never passes unless he finds the fountain of youth.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  15. #15
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    #1.
    Jordan : Post Season - PER

    Peak : 32
    Top 5 : 30.16
    Top 7 : 29.61
    Top 10 : 28.89
    Top 13 : 28.6

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    #2.
    Shaq : Post Season - PER

    Peak : 31
    Top 5 : 30
    Top 7 : 29.56
    Top 10 : 28.52
    Top 13 : 26.55
    14th to 16th Season (Final 3 Seasons) - 18.33

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    #15.
    Kobe : Post Season - PER

    Peak : 26.8
    Top 5 : 24
    Top 7 : 23
    Top 10 : 22.98
    Top 13 : 21.62

    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Kobe passing Shaq?
    Not happening in this universe.

    He can get #7 no higher.

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