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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    To be fair
    League average slash - .240/.313/.353

    So if you are hitting .260, you are doing pretty well there.

    Check out the pitchers numbers.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Hes still a complete bust
    2019

    QB-Lock
    RB-Montgomery
    WR-AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler
    TE-TJ Hockenson
    Edge-Allen
    LB-Devon White, Blake Cashman
    CB-Joejuan Williams
    S-Dieonte Thompson

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    Hes still a complete bust
    I was referring to the other guys.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I was referring to the other guys.
    Ahh gotcha
    2019

    QB-Lock
    RB-Montgomery
    WR-AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler
    TE-TJ Hockenson
    Edge-Allen
    LB-Devon White, Blake Cashman
    CB-Joejuan Williams
    S-Dieonte Thompson

  4. #274
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    Ivan Herrera might be the best prospect we have

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Ivan Herrera might be the best prospect we have
    Please explain more
    2019

    QB-Lock
    RB-Montgomery
    WR-AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler
    TE-TJ Hockenson
    Edge-Allen
    LB-Devon White, Blake Cashman
    CB-Joejuan Williams
    S-Dieonte Thompson

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    Please explain more
    I'm not saying he's necessarily better than Carlson or Gorman, at least not yet. But he did out hit Gorman in Peroria this year (136 wRC+ vs 127) at the same age at the same level. And he hit 2nd or 4th all year there.

    Still not a lot known about him, but they sent him to the Arizona Fall League this year, and he held his own against guys way older than him.

    What I do know about him, is that he has a very advanced plate discipline, which is something that ages well for hitters. Good BB rate, strong K rate. Decent bat to ball rates, not a lot of power though (yet, only 19, and hit 9 HR's this year), but power always develops last any way.

    I don't think many know much about his defense, but so far I've heard he has poor receiving skills, but good catch and throw, pops out of the crouch well etc.

    But they are clearly being aggressive with him. I wouldn't be surprised if he's in AA next year at some point, and starts making top 100 lists soon.

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I'm not saying he's necessarily better than Carlson or Gorman, at least not yet. But he did out hit Gorman in Peroria this year (136 wRC+ vs 127) at the same age at the same level. And he hit 2nd or 4th all year there.

    Still not a lot known about him, but they sent him to the Arizona Fall League this year, and he held his own against guys way older than him.

    What I do know about him, is that he has a very advanced plate discipline, which is something that ages well for hitters. Good BB rate, strong K rate. Decent bat to ball rates, not a lot of power though (yet, only 19, and hit 9 HR's this year), but power always develops last any way.

    I don't think many know much about his defense, but so far I've heard he has poor receiving skills, but good catch and throw, pops out of the crouch well etc.

    But they are clearly being aggressive with him. I wouldn't be surprised if he's in AA next year at some point, and starts making top 100 lists soon.
    Fair enough, I like the sound of it
    2019

    QB-Lock
    RB-Montgomery
    WR-AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler
    TE-TJ Hockenson
    Edge-Allen
    LB-Devon White, Blake Cashman
    CB-Joejuan Williams
    S-Dieonte Thompson

  8. #278
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    Nolan Gorman's best comp at this age and level with ISO, discipline, batted ball rates?


    Matt Olson

    Olson did walk a little more, but Cards have pushed Gorman a little more aggressively.

  9. #279
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    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2020-top-100-prospects/

    It should be noted (as the author does) that the FV grade is worth way more than the individual ranking number.

    Cards show 3 top 100, and number 105 (few extra players were added)

    38. Nolan Gorman - FV - 55
    39. Dylan Carlson - FV - 55
    94. Matthew Liberatore - FV - 50
    105. Ivan Herrera - FV - 50


    Other NL Central Players

    Pit
    30. Ke'Bryan Hayes - FV - 55
    32. O'Neil Cruz - FV - 55
    34. Mitch Keller - FV - 55
    61. Travis Swaggerty - FV - 50
    78. Thanaj Thomas - FV - 50
    98. Liover Pegeruo - FV - 50

    Cin
    73. Tyler Stephenson - FV - 50
    77. Hunter Greene - FV - 50
    82. Jose Garcia - FV - 50
    92. Nick Lodolo - FV - 50

    CHC
    46. Nico Hoerner - FV - 50
    50. Brennan Davis - FV - 50
    65. Miguel Amaya - FV - 50
    114. Brailyn Marquez - FV - 50

    MIL
    104. Brice Turang - FV - 50


    Cardinals Prospects
    Nolan Gorman - 38
    Gorman has some strikeout issues but he’s made adjustments in pro ball and has 35-homer power.

    By torching the Appy League during his first pro summer, Gorman laid to rest any concerns that his whiff-prone pre-draft spring was anything more than a hiccup caused by the whiplash of going from facing elite, showcase high schoolers (who he crushed) to soft-tossing, Arizona varsity pitchers. He struck out a lot (again) during the 2018 stretch run, when St. Louis pushed him to Low-A Peoria because he wasn’t being challenged in Johnson City. Sent back to Peoria for the first half of 2019, Gorman adjusted to full-season pitching and roasted the Midwest League to the tune of a .241/.344/.448 line, cutting his strikeout rate by eight percentage points. He was promoted to the Florida State League for the second half, and while his walk rate halved and his strikeout rate crept above 30% again, Gorman still managed to post an above-average line for that league as a 19-year-old. The strikeout issues will only become a real concern once Gorman stops showing an ability to adjust over a long period of time.

    His huge power, derived from his imposing physicality and explosive hand speed, is likely to play in games because of the lift in Gorman’s swing and his feel for impacting the ball in the air. Because we’re talking about a teenager of considerable size, there’s a chance Gorman has to move off of third base at some point, but for now we’re cautiously optimistic about him staying there for the early part of his big league tenure. There are apt body comps to be made to either of the Seager brothers, while the offensive profile looks more like Miguel Sanó’s.
    If you hit expand under the link
    Probability of outcome for Gorman
    Bust - 30%
    40/45 - 20%
    50/55 - 15%
    60/65 - 15%
    70+ - 20%

    Dylan Carlson - 39
    Carlson is a switch-hitting left fielder with some pop from both sides of the plate.

    A year ago, on the Cardinals list and in our Picks to Click article, we tabbed Carlson as one of the prospects in this org likely to break out. But even we didn’t expect he’d nearly go 20/20 and slug .518 at Double-A Springfield. Judging by the fervor this performance created among our more fantasy-focused readers, they may be wondering why we were ahead of the curve a year ago, but aren’t hitting the gas on Carlson’s evaluation now after the year he had. We certainly like him — Carlson is balanced and coordinated while hitting from both sides of the plate, his left-handed swing has gorgeous lift and finish, he has advanced bat control for a switch-hitter this age, he’s athletic and moves well for his size, and he has high-end makeup. But we have some questions about the ultimate ceiling.

    Carlson is an average runner and a large dude for a 20-year-old. His instincts in center field are okay, but not good enough to overcome long speed that typically falls short at the position. Because of where we have his arm strength graded, we think he fits in left field or at first base. The TrackMan data we sourced also indicates that his 2019 line is a bit of a caricature. His average exit velo (about 88 mph) and rate of balls in play at 95 mph or higher (about 34%) are both right around the big league average, rather than exceptional. The in-office types we talk to about this kind of thing are in love with Carlson because he’s only 20, and they anticipate these things will improve, but visual evaluation of his build don’t suggest as much physical projection as is typical of someone this young, because he’s already a big guy. As a result, he was on the 50/55 FV line for us during the process of compiling this list. The league-average offensive production in left field has been lower than you might expect (it’s 100 wRC+ over the last five years) and Carlson might also be able to play a situational center field when the Cards are behind and need offense, as well as some first base. That versatility is valuable, so he tipped into the 55 FV range. But we think he’s closer to the line than one might conclude if they were just looking at his surface stats.
    Probability of outcome
    Bust - 30%
    40/45 - 20%
    50/55 - 15%
    60/65 - 15%
    70+ - 20% (same as Gorman btw)

    94. Matthew Liberatore
    Libby’s fastball shape is going to force him to be a pitchability guy rather than a power arm.

    With January’s trade with Tampa Bay, the Cardinals rolled some of their seemingly unending, upper-level outfield depth into Libby, That means that between him and childhood friend Nolan Gorman, the Cardinals, who picked 19th in the 2018 draft, now have two of the players most teams had in the top five to seven spots on their pre-draft boards in the system.

    Because Liberatore’s fastball has sinker movement, the growth of his changeup is going to be the most important aspect of his development, since those two pitches have similar movement, and will theoretically tunnel better. The results produced by his knockout curveball, which has all-world depth, may suffer because he doesn’t have an up-in-the-zone four-seamer to pair with it, but should Liberatore decide to get ahead of hitters by dumping that curveball into the zone, good luck to them. It’s the type of pitch that’s hard to hit even if you know it’s coming, but might be easy to lay off of, in the dirt, because its Loch Ness Monster hump is easy to identify out of the hand. All of the advanced pitchability stuff — Libby started learning a slider during his senior year of high school, he varies his timing home, and he’s likely to pitch backwards with the breaking balls — is here, too, and that’ll be important given the lack of a bat-missing fastball. The total package should result in an above-average big league starter.

    Probability of outcome
    Bust - 55%
    40/45 - 20%
    50/55 - 12.5%
    60/65 - 10%
    70+ - 5%
    I'm rounding here because I can't see exact numbers btw


    105. Ivan Herrera
    Herrera is an advanced teenage catcher with surprising top-end power.

    When we began sourcing data on the Cardinals system, we weren’t aware of a max exit velocity for a teenager in excess of 109 mph (Kristian Robinson, Marco Luciano, Luis Toribio) — until we learned of Herrera’s. It was surprising considering Herrera is physically quite modest, and looked sluggish at times during the Fall league, but by that point he had played in three times as many games as he had the year before, and was likely exhausted. Regular season Herrera was a little leaner, twitchy, and athletic, and was an advanced defender with a mature approach at the plate. He also hit .286/.381/.423 as a 19-year-old catcher in the Midwest League. This guy checks all the proverbial boxes and looks like a well-rounded everyday catching prospect.
    Probability of outcome
    Bust - 50%
    40/45 - 20%
    50-55 - 15%
    60/65 - 12.5%
    70+ - 10%







    This if the first person I've seen hate on Liberatore so much. He also think Carlson has more bust in him than anyone else I've seen.
    He also likes Ivan Herrera more than others I've seen.

  10. #280
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    I can see Gorman being a combo of Matt Olson and Miguel Sano

    I can see Carlson being a Dexter Fowler blended with Bernie Williams potential

    I can see Liberatore never reaching the big leagues or being Cole Hamels upside

    I can see Herrera being a Tony Wolters or a Yadier Molina

    The ranges are just so far with each player. I find that I'm lower on Carlson's ceiling than most fans, but I think he's a big league regular. And I'm higher on Gorman than most Cards fans. I'm also probably higher on Herrera, and lower on Liberatore.

  11. #281
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    I think Liberatore gets a big boost for being a lefty. That increases the chances of him being a bust. We'll see though.

    So much of this is hit and miss. Look at Tyler O'Neill. We were ready for him to come in and start hitting 40 hr's a season with awesome defense. It obviously hasn't happened. We'll see if the Cardinals give him a legit shot, and if he can get on base enough to be a big league player.

  12. #282
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    Yeah call me a homer if you want or whatever but I'm excited about O'Neill getting his chance. He's young enough for us to sign to a somewhat long term contract if he excels and he wouldn't cost a ton if we did it but we will see.

    Liberatore definitely intrigues me for sure.

    Herrera is definitely someone you can see being a big time contributor/starter for the MLB. I think he is valuable enough to where we could put Knizner into a trade package when needed. I do value him alot though. I'm sure Cardinals do as well since he's still here.

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by stlfan544 View Post
    Yeah call me a homer if you want or whatever but I'm excited about O'Neill getting his chance. He's young enough for us to sign to a somewhat long term contract if he excels and he wouldn't cost a ton if we did it but we will see.

    Liberatore definitely intrigues me for sure.

    Herrera is definitely someone you can see being a big time contributor/starter for the MLB. I think he is valuable enough to where we could put Knizner into a trade package when needed. I do value him alot though. I'm sure Cardinals do as well since he's still here.
    I agree with you. Oneill will have bader like average and Ks but will put up 30-40 hrs. I see .230-.240 .310 .450 out of him with 30-40 hrs
    2019

    QB-Lock
    RB-Montgomery
    WR-AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler
    TE-TJ Hockenson
    Edge-Allen
    LB-Devon White, Blake Cashman
    CB-Joejuan Williams
    S-Dieonte Thompson

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obabikon View Post
    I think Liberatore gets a big boost for being a lefty. That increases the chances of him being a bust. We'll see though.

    So much of this is hit and miss. Look at Tyler O'Neill. We were ready for him to come in and start hitting 40 hr's a season with awesome defense. It obviously hasn't happened. We'll see if the Cardinals give him a legit shot, and if he can get on base enough to be a big league player.
    Well to be fair, the timeline for a prospect shouldn't end until he is 26/27, O'Neill is only 24. He could easily do that this year, his issue isn't performance, it's health.

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by stlfan544 View Post
    Yeah call me a homer if you want or whatever but I'm excited about O'Neill getting his chance. He's young enough for us to sign to a somewhat long term contract if he excels and he wouldn't cost a ton if we did it but we will see.

    Liberatore definitely intrigues me for sure.

    Herrera is definitely someone you can see being a big time contributor/starter for the MLB. I think he is valuable enough to where we could put Knizner into a trade package when needed. I do value him alot though. I'm sure Cardinals do as well since he's still here.
    I love how aggressive they've been with him, which is saying a lot. The last time they were this aggressive with a young catcher, it was Yadi.

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