Cardinals Trade Discussion Thread

[Jeffy25]

I saw this in a yahoo article... i hope its true haha

I set the criteria at 1350 games (nice whole number)

There are only seven players with less rWAR in their careers than ole big Wig (out of 802)

[Tkais9009]

hell of a career

[Jeffy25]

Mo has done a good job overall in my opinion. his few faults imo include...

The wigginton signing was bad
The westbrook extension was awful (I liked the trade though)
I didn't like the Lohse extension but it worked out for us in the end and i obviously like it
I didn't like the DeRosa trade, though that didn't work out for either side really

I'm probably missing something but when those are the worst moves your GM has made in 7 years... thats not bad

As you all know I like to evaluate the trades at the time, not the way they ended up working out later on (like guys getting hurt and stuff).

The DeRosa deal was a smart move. He helped us a ton with depth and professionalism. And we got a draft pick back for him when he left. It was a wise move at the time, but it didn't help us any. It didn't hurt us any either.

I hated the Westbrook trade. Hated it. The affects weren't bad. But the trade was a counter move for us.

We moved Ludwick to the Padres, the team we were likely to face in the post-season and he quickly became their best offensive player (although he didn't perform like it) and we received a ground ball pitcher with limited time left coming off TJ surgery.

And Haren went to the Angels for hardly anything. I hated the Ludwick/Westbrook trade.

And then Theriot. Theriot was about to be non-tendered. And we gave up value for a guy about to become a free agent. Just seemed like a miscalculation.

Now I'm sure Moz knows better than I do. But those are the moves I didn't like (at the time). I don't like judging moves years later. GM's can't predict injuries, and I don't think they should be expected to.

[Jeffy25]

I'd guess you're gonna be stuck watching Jay at least on a part time basis lol

But for what it's worth Craig has said he prefers the outfield over first base and thinks it's an easier position for him to play.

Lance Berkman said a similar thing about playing the outfield over first base on his bad knees because it wasn't such fast reactions and lateral cuts

yup. outfield is easier on the knees and legs. First is easier on arms and your upper body. Depends what you are trying to protect against. For Craig, RF isn't problematic.

[ciaban]

As you all know I like to evaluate the trades at the time, not the way they ended up working out later on (like guys getting hurt and stuff).

The DeRosa deal was a smart move. He helped us a ton with depth and professionalism. And we got a draft pick back for him when he left. It was a wise move at the time, but it didn't help us any. It didn't hurt us any either.

I hated the Westbrook trade. Hated it. The affects weren't bad. But the trade was a counter move for us.

We moved Ludwick to the Padres, the team we were likely to face in the post-season and he quickly became their best offensive player (although he didn't perform like it) and we received a ground ball pitcher with limited time left coming off TJ surgery.

And Haren went to the Angels for hardly anything. I hated the Ludwick/Westbrook trade.

And then Theriot. Theriot was about to be non-tendered. And we gave up value for a guy about to become a free agent. Just seemed like a miscalculation.

Now I'm sure Moz knows better than I do. But those are the moves I didn't like (at the time). I don't like judging moves years later. GM's can't predict injuries, and I don't think they should be expected to.

Angels gave up Patrick Corbin and Tyler Skaggs for Haren.

[Jeffy25]

Angels gave up Patrick Corbin and Tyler Skaggs for Haren.

At the time, neither were anything. That's what I mean. Of course, that's Towers for you....he is 100% scouting

Hell, Skaggs was a PTBNL in that deal (even though he was their pre-season 7th best prospect) and Corbin was the Angels 21st best prospect at the time of the deal.

At the time, both were very far away, and low level prospects. Something the Cardinals had plenty of. You have to think that Towers could have identified a couple more guys like that out of St. Louis at the time.

[GeronimoSon]

At the time, neither were anything. That's what I mean. Of course, that's Towers for you....he is 100% scouting

Hell, Skaggs was a PTBNL in that deal (even though he was their pre-season 7th best prospect) and Corbin was the Angels 21st best prospect at the time of the deal.

At the time, both were very far away, and low level prospects. Something the Cardinals had plenty of. You have to think that Towers could have identified a couple more guys like that out of St. Louis at the time.

Skaggs was a guy they wanted to draft in 2009, but selected other guys.. Because he hadn't been with Angels for a full year at the time of the Haren trade..he had to be ID'd as PaT BeNaL... (July 25, 2010: The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim sent a player to be named later became Tyler Skaggs, Patrick Corbin, Rafael Rodriguez and Joe Saunders to the Arizona Diamondbacks for Dan Haren.)

[JoeDirt05]

hell of a career

Y'all are making fun of wigginton but he is set for life financially for being terrible sigh if only that was me

[Tkais9009]

baseball reference says close to 25 million so props to him i suppose

[Halopower31]

Would you guys do a Aybar and Bourjos for a Miller and Kelly deal? I feel like it's not enough on our part, but it fills both teams holes.

[Dr Cyanide 28]

i would want more for miller. kelly and lyyn for those two and im all in. not sure if thats enough but more likely for those two guys in terms of miller's value (in my eyes at least)

[rapjuicer06]

Would you guys do a Aybar and Bourjos for a Miller and Kelly deal? I feel like it's not enough on our part, but it fills both teams holes.

I would like to pick up both them two, but not for Miller and Kelly. I would say for Miller or for Kelly and Lynn.

[Skippy15]

Yeah we wouldn't trade Miller for those guys, they're both good players and I actually do like Aybar as a target

But Shelby Miller will be an ace or at the very least an extremely good number 2 if he stays healthy.

We can't trade him unless we are getting a guy like profar or Tulowitzki

I would say Lance Lynn would be a good starting point but I wouldn't go much further than that, I might throw in a guy like Tyler Lyons if I felt like that's all that was keeping it from getting done

But I like our other pitchers to much, even Kelly to trade these guys even though I really like both players and would be interested in both at a certain price

Here's the issue, we don't need a CF upgrade, we have one in the minors and are seriously just trying to get to June with Jay and Robinson or another platoon guy. It's also extremely possible Tavaras plays so good this spring that we have to take him with us and then what? The we have Tavaras, Jay and Bourjos

It just wouldn't be smart on our part to trade an ace and a very good MLB level starter for a past his prime but still good SS and a great defensive player who's shown some hitting ability but we won't have a spot for him in 2 months.

I mean are we gonna play him over Holliday? Craig? Tavaras? He would have to be a 4th outfielder and I don't feel like Aybar and a 4th outfielder are close to worth Miller

[Tkais9009]

yeah i don't like the idea of moving for Miller for anyone but Profar or Tulo..... unless the trade actually blows me away

[Skippy15]

yeah i don't like the idea of moving for Miller for anyone but Profar or Tulo..... unless the trade actually blows me away

I mean, if the angels came down and said we will give you Trout I might at least take a look... lol