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Thread: CC Sabathia

  1. #16
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    Like quiksilver said, he's not opting out to take a lesser deal. He might take the same money but will be looking for more years. Not happening in Beantown.

  2. #17
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    Since 2008: his K's are dropping, his FIP is rising, his HR/9 is rising, and his WHIP is rising.

  3. #18
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    he wasn't even voted as an All Star. Why would we want him??????



  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKid View Post
    he wasn't even voted as an All Star. Why would we want him??????



  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pittz View Post
    Since 2008: his K's are dropping, his FIP is rising, his HR/9 is rising, and his WHIP is rising.
    Stat cherry-picking, and his HR/9 this year now than at any point in his career.

  6. #21
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    How is that cherry-picking? Those are all significant stats, and the downward trends aren't encouraging. I don't see how you can just dismiss it and say that isn't a sign of slight decline.

    He's been lucky this year with a HR/FB rate of only 4.2%, the lowest of his career.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pittz View Post
    How is that cherry-picking? Those are all significant stats, and the downward trends aren't encouraging. I don't see how you can just dismiss it and say that isn't a sign of slight decline.

    He's been lucky this year with a HR/FB rate of only 4.2%, the lowest of his career.
    Because the diff between 7.4 and 7.5 is not significant. You also ignored his SO/BB rate. You chose 2008 as a cut-off point, ignoring several years before that when he was worse (and better).

    I said he's not 2008-2007 Sabathia, but that doesn't mean he can't plateau for a few years. He's a horse. He's near-elite.

    I just think a few posters are ignoring the fact that he's pretty much levelled off....not to mention he has access now to whatever miracle procedure Colon went through.

    As if the Yanks wern't difficult enough..they now have Nazi Mad Scientists working for them.

  8. #23
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    For the most part, I'm discounting this year until it's complete. But the biggest argument that he's not declining is his performance so far this year.

    I picked 2008 because '08-'10 is a three year period, which is a reasonable period to track trends, in my opinion. K/9 of 8.93 -> 7.71 -> 7.46. FIP of 2.91 -> 3.39 -> 3.54. Those are significant numbers. And if you want to look at K/BB in that period, 4.25 -> 2.94 -> 2.66.

    This year he's been much better, but those are all noticeable declines. Obviously he's still ridiculously good and I'm not saying that he won't be a great pitcher for the next few years. But any time you're talking about giving a pitcher a 7 year contract for insane money, you probably don't want to see any signs of decline.

  9. #24
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    This makes me think...when's the last time the Cy Young winner didn't make the ASG?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pittz View Post
    For the most part, I'm discounting this year until it's complete. But the biggest argument that he's not declining is his performance so far this year.

    I picked 2008 because '08-'10 is a three year period, which is a reasonable period to track trends, in my opinion. K/9 of 8.93 -> 7.71 -> 7.46. FIP of 2.91 -> 3.39 -> 3.54. Those are significant numbers. And if you want to look at K/BB in that period, 4.25 -> 2.94 -> 2.66.

    This year he's been much better, but those are all noticeable declines. Obviously he's still ridiculously good and I'm not saying that he won't be a great pitcher for the next few years. But any time you're talking about giving a pitcher a 7 year contract for insane money, you probably don't want to see any signs of decline.
    I understand you wanting to track trends, but 2008 seems to be a bit of an outlier year for him. It's his lowest year for both FIP and xFIP, so I think we would be better served to compared the Sabathia of now to the years prior to 2008 as well. He's still not quite as good as he was in his prime, but who is? I'm not entirely concerned with some huge dropoff of quality from him.

    That said, to suggest we should go after him but not be prepared to offer him a Lackey-or possibly more-contract is a bit foolish. The Yankees will want to keep him, other teams will want to acquire him, etc.

  11. #26
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    [QUOTE=Soxfan85;18449487]Before you all jump in and say no no not another Lackey.

    CC plans to Opt out of his contract at the end of the season. Wakefield will 45 in August and he said 2011 will be his last year. What are your thoughts on this rotation. I'm not saying give him a monster contract like we did with Lackey. Dont rip on me throwing some ideas out. He has been excellent with the Yankees since joining them i say we go after him.

    Lester..... has some potential

    Beckett.....blows and will be a has been next year.

    CC Sabathia.....Loves the Yanks and N.Y. and would never downgrade to Boston

    John Lackey........will always blow more and more.

    Clay Buchholz....will be good but has to stay injury free.
    'Real' Yankee fans tell the truth about the team whether it is nice or not.

    "Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankee win."
    -- Yankees announcer Phil Rizzuto after reading a bulletin that Pope Paul VI had died

  12. #27
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    It seems on this forum anytime a stud pitcher is available (ie. Cliff Lee last offseason) no one wants to go after them. Sabathia whether you like the way he looks is a stud, top of the rotation guy. I would prefer we go all in on these pitchers when they become available. Pitching is the most important factor in winning baseball games. Instead we sign these head scratchers like Lackey and Crawford this offseason.

  13. #28
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    Lester..... has some potential

    Beckett.....blows and will be a has been next year.

    CC Sabathia.....Loves the Yanks and N.Y. and would never downgrade to Boston

    John Lackey........will always blow more and more.

    Clay Buchholz....will be good but has to stay injury free.

    Lester.... is one of the best left-handed pitchers in the game.

    Beckett.... is a pretty good pitcher himself. His starts against the Yankees this year:

    April 10: 8 IP 0 R 0 ER 2 H 1 BB 10 K Red Sox win 4-0
    May 14 : 6 IP 0 R 0 ER 4 H 2 BB 9 K Red Sox win 6-0
    June 9: 7 IP 2 R 2 ER 2 H 2 BB 6 K Red Sox win 8-3

    Sabathia.... is a good pitcher. Versus the Red Sox this year:

    April 10: 5.2 IP 9 H 1 R 1 ER 4 BB 4 K Yankees lose 4-0
    May 14: 7.2 IP 7 H 6 R 6 ER 3 BB 6 K Yankees lose 6-0
    June 9: 6.2 IP 8 H 6 R 6 ER 2 BB 5 K Yankees lose 8-3

    Beckett Totals:

    21 IP 2 R 2 ER 8 H 5 BB 25 K (3-0 record)

    Sabathia Totals:

    20 IP 13 R 13 ER 24 H 9 BB 15 K (0-3 record)

    Both are good pitchers but to you assume that Beckett is a has been and blows is false. He's 3-0 against your boy Sabathia. The Red Sox don't need him and shouldn't sign him. Let him stay in NY.

    Lackey.... Red Sox fans know what to expect.

    Buchholz .... has the stuff but needs to stay off of the DL.
    Last edited by MooseWithFleas; 07-04-2011 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Please keep the personal insults out of the post.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pavelb1 View Post
    This makes me think...when's the last time the Cy Young winner didn't make the ASG?
    Felix Hernandez didnt get picked? Guess my mlb.com is messed up..Why would Sabathia make you think of King Felix anyway?

  15. #30
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    [QUOTE=7chuck7;18458558]
    Quote Originally Posted by Soxfan85 View Post
    Before you all jump in and say no no not another Lackey.

    CC plans to Opt out of his contract at the end of the season. Wakefield will 45 in August and he said 2011 will be his last year. What are your thoughts on this rotation. I'm not saying give him a monster contract like we did with Lackey. Dont rip on me throwing some ideas out. He has been excellent with the Yankees since joining them i say we go after him.

    Lester..... has some potential

    Beckett.....blows and will be a has been next year.

    CC Sabathia.....Loves the Yanks and N.Y. and would never downgrade to Boston

    John Lackey........will always blow more and more.

    Clay Buchholz....will be good but has to stay injury free.
    Lester..... is a top 5 AL pitcher in the last 3 1/2 years.

    Beckett.....has shut down the Yankees this year, 3-0 and has a lower ERA than anybody in the Yankees rotation. Only Jered Weaver has a lower ERA in the majors. Think again.

    CC Sabathia......is going to sign a 7 year contract with the Yankees and won't be a good pitcher in years 5-7.

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