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  1. #1
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    Purposeful Injuring and Suspensions

    Not sure if many remember the Cardinals vs. Reds brawl in Cincinnati on August 10. Johnny Cueto was pinned up against the netting by his own teammates. He began kicking with his cleats and he kicked Jason LaRue in the face and chest, causing a concussion and bruised ribs. He also kicked Chris Carpenter in the back. It was not known at the time how bad the injuries were and suspensions have to be handed down with 48 hours I think. Cueto was suspended one start.

    The reason I bring this up is that, due to the concussion symptoms, Jason LaRue's career is now over. Meanwhile, Cueto is still pitching. Here's the link: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...023d58d00.html

    Obviously, this was talked about a lot when it happened. I wanted to return to the topic. If one player's actions end the career of another's, but it's not known immediately that that will happen, should the MLB be able to extend the suspension of the offending player? I can't help but think if the MLB knew at the time that this would end LaRue's career, Cueto would have been suspended longer.

    Resulting trauma to the brain left LaRue unable to drive or even to cook for himself. Minimal activity created sensations that he likened to seasickness, as LaRue would develop excruciating headaches and nausea.

    Watching television or riding in a car for more than a couple miles brought on symptoms. Eventually doctors ordered him to rejoin his family in Texas since he was in no condition to be left alone here.
    That kind of wounding really sounds like it should result in more than a one-game suspension. A concussion is bad enough, but purposefully causing one is worse. LaRue has recovered quite a bit, but he's still not 100%.

    Still, LaRue is 36 and
    La Rue estimates he has suffered "close to 20" concussions in his athletic career dating to high school football. Doctors warned him the next one might bring about symptoms at least, if not more, severe than what he now experiences.
    Friends say that LaRue contemplated taking legal action against Cueto for the on-field assault that led to his condition but has since discarded the idea. La Rue says that he has no interest in pursuing the matter. However, he remains peeved over the actions of a player Carpenter described as 'some idiot."

    "I was going to retire on my own terms," LaRue says. "It's unfortunate that the blow that decided it came from someone kicking me in the head with spikes. I wouldn't say I would change things if you could rewrite history. They say things happen for certain reasons. In this case, I couldn't tell you why. Does it suck that my career is over because Johnny Cueto started kicking me in the head? Yes, it sucks.
    So LaRue likely would have retired soon anyway. Still, the actions of Cueto made LaRue's return impossible. Should Cueto have been suspended longer? Should any player who purposefully injures another be suspended longer if the injured player is forced to retire?
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbird89 View Post
    Not sure if many remember the Cardinals vs. Reds brawl in Cincinnati on August 10. Johnny Cueto was pinned up against the netting by his own teammates. He began kicking with his cleats and he kicked Jason LaRue in the face and chest, causing a concussion and bruised ribs. He also kicked Chris Carpenter in the back. It was not known at the time how bad the injuries were and suspensions have to be handed down with 48 hours I think. Cueto was suspended one start.

    The reason I bring this up is that, due to the concussion symptoms, Jason LaRue's career is now over. Meanwhile, Cueto is still pitching. Here's the link: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...023d58d00.html

    Obviously, this was talked about a lot when it happened. I wanted to return to the topic. If one player's actions end the career of another's, but it's not known immediately that that will happen, should the MLB be able to extend the suspension of the offending player? I can't help but think if the MLB knew at the time that this would end LaRue's career, Cueto would have been suspended longer.



    That kind of wounding really sounds like it should result in more than a one-game suspension. A concussion is bad enough, but purposefully causing one is worse. LaRue has recovered quite a bit, but he's still not 100%.

    Still, LaRue is 36 and




    So LaRue likely would have retired soon anyway. Still, the actions of Cueto made LaRue's return impossible. Should Cueto have been suspended longer? Should any player who purposefully injures another be suspended longer if the injured player is forced to retire?
    In that situation he is pinned up against the fence. If I was in that situation I would be kicking too because it was kinda scary. The real situation is why the umpires didn't stop the brawl from even happening. Right when Molina stands up and they're in each others face you toss them. After what Phillips said you knew there was going to be retaliation. Did the ump think they were going to have a civilizied conversation up there? You toss them both and the brawl never happens.

    Since Cueto only got 1 game it leads me to believe that it was a heat of the moment thing where he was scared and acted poorly and most likely sorry about what happened. That many people that are fighting doesn't lead to good sound decisions.


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  3. #3
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    Give me a break, there were no less than 10 guys pinned up against the same fence. Cueto was the only punk kicking. He should be banned from the game for ending another players career, intentionally. Accidental injuries happen in all of sport. Crashing into home plate, pitchers losing their control and hitting batters are all accidents that happen and are an acceptable risk. The only reason you kick someone in the face is to intentionally injure them. He's a punk and should be out of baseball. A punch to the face would not have been nearly as violent. Kicking with metal cleated shoes is unacceptable

  4. #4
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    Just because he was intentionally kicking doesn't mean he was trying to end somebody's career. This isn't the NHL. You don't hand out suspensions based on the outcome, you do it based on the offense. If a pitcher has a ball slip and hits a player in the head, ending their career, does he then deserve a suspension? I could agree with an argument that says Cueto deserved to miss more than one game originally, but no way you add to the suspension a month later because of this information.

    And let's be honest. LaRue is a 36 year-old catcher who hasn't posted an OBP of over .300 or an OPS over .650 in four years. His career was over before getting kicked in the noggin.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by salto View Post
    The only reason you kick someone in the face is to intentionally injure them. He's a punk and should be out of baseball. A punch to the face would not have been nearly as violent. Kicking with metal cleated shoes is unacceptable
    If he were standing in the batter's box during a normal plate appearance, then this statement is correct. But when you're talking about it in the context of a fight, then it can be attributed to self defense. And even if what you're saying was true, doesn't that mean everybody in the brawl who was on the attack rather than working to restrain others was attempting to injure a player on the other team? In that case, why should Cueto's suspension be so much longer than theirs, just because he was successful?
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  6. #6
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    If the Cards want justice, they will have to extract it next time they face Cueto. When he bats, put a fastball in his ribs.

  7. #7
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    You're a coward when you start kicking people with your shoes that have medal spikes on the bottom of them. You might as well bring out the bats.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodandNails View Post
    If he were standing in the batter's box during a normal plate appearance, then this statement is correct. But when you're talking about it in the context of a fight, then it can be attributed to self defense. And even if what you're saying was true, doesn't that mean everybody in the brawl who was on the attack rather than working to restrain others was attempting to injure a player on the other team? In that case, why should Cueto's suspension be so much longer than theirs, just because he was successful?
    This. His penalty doesn't become worse because he happened to hit a catcher with a **** load of concussions who probably eventually would've had the same thing happen to him on some random foul ball.

  9. #9
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    Unless you can prove that he was gunning for LaRue and he was trying to injure him then no.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsfan28 View Post
    This. His penalty doesn't become worse because he happened to hit a catcher with a **** load of concussions who probably eventually would've had the same thing happen to him on some random foul ball.
    metal spike with no helmet on or a foul ball with a helmet on. Don't defend Cueto it has nothing to do with his age and past he still ended his career. I could careless if he was going to retire soon or didnt have that many years left. He was a backup catcher and generally they dont hit well. Maybe he wanted to play independent league after his career in mlb maybe he wanted to coach this affected him for the longterm.

    Cueto should have been suspended longer but you cant suspend someone again its like if someone robs a bank and he gets 8years and he gets out and they say umm we decided your going to do another 4 years.

    Larue should take legal action. The MLB should make him give a public apology to help set a better example for kids.

    and by the way Jetsfan are you looking for some Jets tickets. they are for halloween night got a set of 4 trying to sell accidently bought 2 sets of 4 tickets by clicking submit twice..i think its section 108
    Last edited by Joemoes; 09-19-2010 at 12:11 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by {Ron!n} View Post
    Unless you can prove that he was gunning for LaRue and he was trying to injure him then no.
    So if someone has a gun and is trying to kill someone and misses kills the person standing next to him they shouldnt get charged with murder?

  12. #12
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    It was an unfortunate accident. And how do you guys know Cueto was the only one kicking? It was a brawl - there's a lot you don't see.


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  13. #13
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    kicking or not, no one can honestly say his inentions were to end someones career. he's clearly an ******* for kicking someone at all, but the results do not imp,y intent. he should have been suspended, but banned from baseball is a bit much
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  14. #14
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    Gets tricky when benches clear. Guess it could be a once you run out into a brawl it's at your own risk even if your trying to separate and gather your players. Obviously kicking is dirty and should result in punishment and treated on basis not a minimum/maximum punishment. You could kick someone or punch someone and due career ending injury. What if you kick the opponent and no injury happened but the intent was there?

    Lets say you have a guy like Jose Offerman assault a player with a bat then it's obviously intent to injure and harm then an immediate barring from the league is handed down.

  15. #15
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    It amazes me how people can defend Cueto for kicking people in the head with cleats. He acted like a huge ***** and the result of that was ending a man's career. If you say you would have done the same thing in Cueto's position, you are a ***** too. No excuse for it and trust me, the Cards are definitely going to put one in Cueto's ribs and most likely more than once.

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