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  1. #1
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    Jul 2009
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    NY
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    Did Rockets GM Daryl Morey outsmart Knicks GM Donnie Walsh?

    Read this in another forum and thought it was interesting. Give your thoughts on it


    Something Morey said during the press conference struck a chord with me. I had that "Ahhh Haaa!" moment. I finally understood Morey's grand plan.

    Morey: NY consider Jeffries someone they need to get rid of for their summer plans to be set up. It was something that was important to them. NY did the right thing based on what their plans were. I think there are now 8 teams that can chase free agents, not necessarily 8 free agents and some of the teams are trying for 2. I don't think we're out of it (2010). In our opinion we're more in it. We dont know where they going to go, i can't talk about specific players but for those players just to sign with the teams they have to give up 30 million dollars. I don't know too many players that are willing to do that, now they might but i think most of those players will go in sign and trade. Now we like the players that we have but we'll have an opportunity there to add those players in sign and trade over summer.


    Translation:
    Walsh was aiming to put himself in a weaker position to chase LeBron by getting rid of Jeffries. Morey knew it and squeezed the **** out of him with the picks and Hill. Walsh has put himself in position to convince 2 max players to give up $60 million instead of a sign and trade for one free agent and convince another guy to give up $30 million for the right to play with the 1st guy for a ring.


    Knicks' tradeable assets for a max free agent before the trade:
    Curry's expiring contract, Jeffries expiring contract, David Lee in a sign and trade, 2011 1st round draft pick swap, 2012 1st round draft pick, 2009 draft pick Jordan Hill, and Nate Robinson.

    After 2 trades, they were left with only expiring contract Curry, David Lee in a sign and trade.


    Rockets, Before the trade
    2010 Rockets 1st, 2012 Rockets 1st, a choice of various rotation players Landry,Brooks, Budinger, Ariza, Battier, etc

    After the trade.
    2010 Rockets 1st or 2011 Rockets(pick swappable with NY, top 1 protected) and 2012 Rockets 1st Pick, 2012 NY's 1st pick(top 5 protected), 2009 Knicks 1st pick(Jordan Hill)

    That's just the draft picks that a team needs to rebuild from losing their franchise player.

    Throw in their choice of young talent: Budinger, Brooks, Kevin Martin,

    Contracts to lower the hit of a sign and trade: Jeffries' expiring

    Morey: "Walsh, good luck doing a sign and trade with Toronto and Cleveland or convincing 2 max players to give up $60 million dollars. By the way, I am trying to steal LeBron, Amare and Bosh with your old trade assets and they will get paid $30 million dollars more in sign and trade with your old trade assets!"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    24,560
    its not really outsmarting anyone.ny is desperate in their 2010 goal,its no secret,anyone with big expiring could have gotten alot from them.so the rockets were in the position of power.they had a huge expiring and other teams that were interested,so they played to it.its just ny was so desperate,everyones known their goal for years,so were willing to pay almost any price set...something other teams werent willing to do


    its a gamble,great if the stars really do want to come like your hoping...but if not,welcome to the past few years
    Last edited by abe_froman; 02-19-2010 at 05:02 AM.

  3. #3
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    Oct 2007
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    11,044
    The Knicks got RAPED in that deal. So let's say they go out and get two max FA's, even though Wade and Lebron are more likely to stay than leave. Even if the KNicks sign, let's say, Amare and Joe Johnson. Who else will be on that team? Chris Duhon? Galinari? That team is still garbage.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    478
    Quote Originally Posted by SDBearsFan View Post
    The Knicks got RAPED in that deal. So let's say they go out and get two max FA's, even though Wade and Lebron are more likely to stay than leave. Even if the KNicks sign, let's say, Amare and Joe Johnson. Who else will be on that team? Chris Duhon? Galinari? That team is still garbage.
    I think you vastly underestimate the power of two top level young players. If they get any combo of Wade/Bosh/James they will be alright. They have three solid young players under contract in Gallo, Chandler, and Douglas... plus they have the expiring contract Curry, something that could be used to bring in someone by next years trade deadline. They also have the MLE exception to work with... and who knows what vets might want to play for the vets minimum to get a chance at a ring. By November the Knicks will be looking very different.

    If they end up, like you said, with Amar'e and Joe Johnson, then this whole 2010 thing is a failure. Sure they can find a way to surround Amar'e and Joe with talent, but those two aren't on the same level as Wade and James, or Bosh and James. They probably will make it back to the playoffs... but you don't toss away two seasons to become a playoff contender... you do that to become a championship contender. They might have been a playoff contender with Zbo and Crawford running the ship.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    36
    King P,
    I am glad you posted this article, for awhile I was wondering why we did what we did but this makes perfect sense. Go Rockets!!! If only we can trade Yao for Lebron. Yeah I know - DREAM ON. Nice article and yes it seems as Morey has done it again. If we end up with a major star in 2010 then he will be one of the best GM's in Rockets history.

  6. #6
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    Mar 2008
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    6,691
    Quote Originally Posted by SDBearsFan View Post
    The Knicks got RAPED in that deal. So let's say they go out and get two max FA's, even though Wade and Lebron are more likely to stay than leave. Even if the KNicks sign, let's say, Amare and Joe Johnson. Who else will be on that team? Chris Duhon? Galinari? That team is still garbage.
    I'm not so sure it was a bad deal for the knicks... let's say that they do sign two of those quality FA's... Amare and Joe Johnson. Now, if they are lucky, they sign TMac to the mid level exception... You then have Amare, Chandler, Gallinari, Tony Douglas, Joe Johnson, TMac, as a core...

    Or they could get Bosh and keep David Lee and TMac for a starting rotation of Douglas, Tmac, Chandler, Lee and Bosh with Gall coming off the bench. Point is, the off season will only be able to tell how good their team can get.

  7. #7
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    ... and if the Knicks do get good, then the picks that they traded for carry less value, and the lopsided view of the trade is negated.

    Let's say the knicks sign Lebron and Bosh. Things look a whole lot different then. And if Yao continues to be injured... then your low post needs become more pressing. Seems like the whole trade from Houston's point of view will be determined by how good Jordan Hill becomes and how bad NY becomes.

  8. #8
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    NY is screwed if they don't get someone. They have no future. Their team is already a piece of **** and they have practically no picks. I'm sorry but even if they do sign someone they may have to sign 2 or they are doomed IMO.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavs_Fan24 View Post
    NY is screwed if they don't get someone. They have no future. Their team is already a piece of **** and they have practically no picks. I'm sorry but even if they do sign someone they may have to sign 2 or they are doomed IMO.
    Let all the haters rejoice. See you in the summer.

  10. #10
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    Knicks could have 2 stars and will still be surrounded by garbage.

    and if a FA signs in NY its gonna be about the money and not championships.

  11. #11
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    This was the dumbest article I have ever read on PSD. I am not saying one has to praise the Knicks , but you do have to give credit to where it is due. Stop acting like Lebron, Bosh, and Wade are the only available free agents this summer. It is an absolute blessing that the Knicks got rid of Jeffries contract to free up more money for the summer. With Curry's contract expiring next season, the Knicks look to be in a very good position for years to come.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudvayne387 View Post
    This was the dumbest article I have ever read on PSD. I am not saying one has to praise the Knicks , but you do have to give credit to where it is due. Stop acting like Lebron, Bosh, and Wade are the only available free agents this summer. It is an absolute blessing that the Knicks got rid of Jeffries contract to free up more money for the summer. With Curry's contract expiring next season, the Knicks look to be in a very good position for years to come.
    There is no credit due here. Walsh is nothing more than Isiah Part II.

    The only hope here is that some free agent is stupid enough to leave lots of money on the table and sign out right with the Knicks. That isn't very likely to happen when it is pretty widely known that this is the last offseason before the CBA is up for renewal and the owners are pushing to limit contracts after that.

    And to throw away draft picks on top of that is the icing on the cake.

  13. #13
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    Apr 2007
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    I don't really understandd how Walsh got outsmartedd if he finally put New York in tha right direction, even after Isiah's mess, which I personally thought wouldd take longer to fix. Now he's got enuff to sign 2 of tha big names if he can pull it off, which wouldd put NY backk on tha map. I'll sure as hell buy season tickets if tha Knicks get Lebron and one of tha other superstars available this offseason. Will be a fun team to watch nexxt year.

  14. #14
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    I dont see why people dont understand that if Wade, leBron or Bosh doesnt resign they lose about 30 mil in contract money. And like the article says if either of those guys leave their teams it would most likely be done in sign and trades. And Houston has assets now to get in done. And NY really doesnt anymore.

    Lets say NY signs to major free agents they have no money to sign David Lee to the money he wants and after this year probably deserves.

  15. #15
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    Jan 2006
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    20,034
    Quote Originally Posted by King P View Post
    Read this in another forum and thought it was interesting. Give your thoughts on it


    Something Morey said during the press conference struck a chord with me. I had that "Ahhh Haaa!" moment. I finally understood Morey's grand plan.

    Morey: NY consider Jeffries someone they need to get rid of for their summer plans to be set up. It was something that was important to them. NY did the right thing based on what their plans were. I think there are now 8 teams that can chase free agents, not necessarily 8 free agents and some of the teams are trying for 2. I don't think we're out of it (2010). In our opinion we're more in it. We dont know where they going to go, i can't talk about specific players but for those players just to sign with the teams they have to give up 30 million dollars. I don't know too many players that are willing to do that, now they might but i think most of those players will go in sign and trade. Now we like the players that we have but we'll have an opportunity there to add those players in sign and trade over summer.


    Translation:
    Walsh was aiming to put himself in a weaker position to chase LeBron by getting rid of Jeffries. Morey knew it and squeezed the **** out of him with the picks and Hill. Walsh has put himself in position to convince 2 max players to give up $60 million instead of a sign and trade for one free agent and convince another guy to give up $30 million for the right to play with the 1st guy for a ring.


    Knicks' tradeable assets for a max free agent before the trade:
    Curry's expiring contract, Jeffries expiring contract, David Lee in a sign and trade, 2011 1st round draft pick swap, 2012 1st round draft pick, 2009 draft pick Jordan Hill, and Nate Robinson.

    After 2 trades, they were left with only expiring contract Curry, David Lee in a sign and trade.


    Rockets, Before the trade
    2010 Rockets 1st, 2012 Rockets 1st, a choice of various rotation players Landry,Brooks, Budinger, Ariza, Battier, etc

    After the trade.
    2010 Rockets 1st or 2011 Rockets(pick swappable with NY, top 1 protected) and 2012 Rockets 1st Pick, 2012 NY's 1st pick(top 5 protected), 2009 Knicks 1st pick(Jordan Hill)

    That's just the draft picks that a team needs to rebuild from losing their franchise player.

    Throw in their choice of young talent: Budinger, Brooks, Kevin Martin,

    Contracts to lower the hit of a sign and trade: Jeffries' expiring

    Morey: "Walsh, good luck doing a sign and trade with Toronto and Cleveland or convincing 2 max players to give up $60 million dollars. By the way, I am trying to steal LeBron, Amare and Bosh with your old trade assets and they will get paid $30 million dollars more in sign and trade with your old trade assets!"
    Houston also has the right to swap first-round picks with New York in 2011, and the Rockets also get New York's 2012 first-round pick.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4924836

    I thought you couldn't trade consecutive first rounders.

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