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  1. #1
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    Does one sense of Obama's "bipartisanship" actually amount to...

    ...just treating the other side seriously?


    That's what I was kind of pondering after reading these two articles.

    First, from the Post,

    This article, which is a really great read, I think, no matter which angle you're coming from. Ostensibly it's about the West Wing, under Rahm Emmanuel, being much more accessible that under Bush. But in practical terms, the meat of the story is that the reason that access actually means something to Republicans who walk through the door, is that they're finding ears that are actually listening to them.

    This second post is from Nate Silver (yeah, I'm citing him again), who addresses the question of bipartisanship more directly.



    But the basic gist, the common theme running through both stories, is that essentially Obama is not outright dismissive of opposing ideas; that he takes them seriously, and weighs on them with consideration. That his administration is not merely assuming to hold the moral high ground, but is open to the possibility not only that there is some shared high ground, but that the opposition might be able to contribute some constructive ideas as to how to identify and navigate it.



    Of course, I personally have no idea what' really happening behind the scenes. But it's nice to think that some bridges of civility might actually be under construction, and that in spite of points of disagreement existing, points of agreement might be used some of those gaps.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    ...just treating the other side seriously?


    That's what I was kind of pondering after reading these two articles.

    First, from the Post,

    This article, which is a really great read, I think, no matter which angle you're coming from. Ostensibly it's about the West Wing, under Rahm Emmanuel, being much more accessible that under Bush. But in practical terms, the meat of the story is that the reason that access actually means something to Republicans who walk through the door, is that they're finding ears that are actually listening to them.

    This second post is from Nate Silver (yeah, I'm citing him again), who addresses the question of bipartisanship more directly.



    But the basic gist, the common theme running through both stories, is that essentially Obama is not outright dismissive of opposing ideas; that he takes them seriously, and weighs on them with consideration. That his administration is not merely assuming to hold the moral high ground, but is open to the possibility not only that there is some shared high ground, but that the opposition might be able to contribute some constructive ideas as to how to identify and navigate it.



    Of course, I personally have no idea what' really happening behind the scenes. But it's nice to think that some bridges of civility might actually be under construction, and that in spite of points of disagreement existing, points of agreement might be used some of those gaps.
    Sorry but this is just more dribble about Obama's petty attempts at bipartisanship. I realize you love the guy Betsu, but his attempts at bipartisanship have either been half assed or laughable. Quit trying to defend the guy on this issue. Really the only thing he has done that has appeased the right is keeping Robert Gates, mainly because there is no one on the left that could a better job, but that's my opinion.




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  3. #3
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    Who really gives a crap?

    All I want is to see him make the right decisions. And for the most part he's doing it.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    Who really gives a crap?

    All I want is to see him make the right decisions. And for the most part he's doing it.
    In your opinion, what has he done right?




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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubsrule View Post
    In your opinion, what has he done right?
    you've already seen what he agrees with regarding foreign policy and economic policy at the least. I've seen you respond to his posts and be involved in the discussions. DId you forget already? I paid attention to his posts and can remember several in addition to what I just referenced, surely you can remember your own discussions of just reference previous posts.

    Why is research contually eluding your posts? Is it deliberately trying to bring up more obama bashing? Do you honestly not remember? Or do you just not want to put in the time to research things like this and the army field manual I had to bring to your attention instead of the cliffs notes you threw at me in a previous thread?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN View Post
    you've already seen what he agrees with regarding foreign policy and economic policy at the least. I've seen you respond to his posts and be involved in the discussions. DId you forget already? I paid attention to his posts and can remember several in addition to what I just referenced, surely you can remember your own discussions of just reference previous posts.

    Why is research contually eluding your posts? Is it deliberately trying to bring up more obama bashing? Do you honestly not remember? Or do you just not want to put in the time to research things like this and the army field manual I had to bring to your attention instead of the cliffs notes you threw at me in a previous thread?
    Lol, I am gonna take the same route that just about everyone in this forum has with you and not respond. It's too fricken hilarious to read what you post. I'll continue to have my discussion with ari, being as I don't think I was in on the first discussion.




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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    But the basic gist, the common theme running through both stories, is that essentially Obama is not outright dismissive of opposing ideas; that he takes them seriously, and weighs on them with consideration.
    You mean outright dismissive as in the first response to your post?

    ... in spite of points of disagreement existing, points of agreement might be used some of those gaps.
    Exactly. While disagreements may persist, at least the partisan rancor settles down long enough for people to hear each other's ideas.

    Unlike a sport, where the goal is simply to beat the other team, politicians are not supposed to "beat" other politicians and other Americans. They're supposed to be productive. They can't do that when they treat their term of office as the regular season and the election campaign as the playoffs. They have to treat their term of office as their mandate and actually achieve something with their peers from either side of the aisle.

    I like any thread that de-emphasizes partisanship.
    Last edited by ink; 04-13-2009 at 05:06 PM.
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  8. #8
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    I think the trouble is that different people have different ideas of what bi-partisanship should mean. Some seem to think it should be listening to what the other side can bring to the table and then trying to make what seems to be the best choice based on the options presented. This flip side to this is people thinking this should mean equal time and equal input to the final structure. I don't agree with this second view but I can see why the minority will want to hold this standard. Being given a turn and a voice that is heard and then over-ridden is not what the ex-majority is used to. They are used to running roughshod over everything and being allowed to run amuck.

    News flash !!! Bi-partisanship does not mean that the minority party gets the final say on anything.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seppuku View Post
    News flash !!! Bi-partisanship does not mean that the minority party gets the final say on anything.
    That sounds like the traditional Sean Hannity definition. I think most conservatives understand that there will be give and take but as the minority you should expect more take than give. You were voted into the minority because you dont represent what the majority of people think, but on the same token you do represent a majority of what your particular constituents want.
    Think long and hard about why you respond to nonsense. Please!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubsrule View Post
    Lol, I am gonna take the same route that just about everyone in this forum has with you and not respond. It's too fricken hilarious to read what you post. I'll continue to have my discussion with ari, being as I don't think I was in on the first discussion.
    there have been numerous discussions that you have been involved in which ari has stated his agreement with obama's foreigh and economic policy decisions. refresh yourself.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN View Post
    there have been numerous discussions that you have been involved in which ari has stated his agreement with obama's foreigh and economic policy decisions. refresh yourself.
    Really, I mean you're really gonna fight this




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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    That sounds like the traditional Sean Hannity definition. I think most conservatives understand that there will be give and take but as the minority you should expect more take than give. You were voted into the minority because you dont represent what the majority of people think, but on the same token you do represent a majority of what your particular constituents want.
    I think thats a little extreme, its not so much beliefs anymore as it is with the issues and popularity. Bush got in because Kerry was an idiot and the Iraq war was the biggest issue, which Republicans tend to be more trusted with. Likewise Obama got elected because McCain was an idiot and Bush was an unpopular President, while the biggest issue was the economy, which the public tends to trust more to Democrats.




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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    That sounds like the traditional Sean Hannity definition. I think most conservatives understand that there will be give and take but as the minority you should expect more take than give. You were voted into the minority because you dont represent what the majority of people think, but on the same token you do represent a majority of what your particular constituents want.
    I like the idea, and the perception, of Obama listening for good ideas and implementing the best of what he hears regardless of where it originates. Whether or not this is the case, we can't prove or disprove. We have been overexposed though, through various media outlets, to the bluster from the right that their ideas are not being implemented. In some cases it has been that we are moving away from what they believe are the correct paths to follow. The problem has been that the input they are shouting about (that I have seen, anyway) is a rehash of the same failed policies they had implemented when they were the majority. If it didn't work then, don't expect that the left is going to listen now and continue the failed policies of the right. It is supposed to be a house cleaning with new input. I'm thinking that the left is just waiting for something new and worth trying so they can be bipartisan.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seppuku View Post
    I like the idea, and the perception, of Obama listening for good ideas and implementing the best of what he hears regardless of where it originates. Whether or not this is the case, we can't prove or disprove. We have been overexposed though, through various media outlets, to the bluster from the right that their ideas are not being implemented. In some cases it has been that we are moving away from what they believe are the correct paths to follow. The problem has been that the input they are shouting about (that I have seen, anyway) is a rehash of the same failed policies they had implemented when they were the majority. If it didn't work then, don't expect that the left is going to listen now and continue the failed policies of the right. It is supposed to be a house cleaning with new input. I'm thinking that the left is just waiting for something new and worth trying so they can be bipartisan.
    This was from the times,

    A worthy Republican Plan

    What exactly are you referring to as failed policies that they are pushing now, lower taxes?




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  15. #15
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    Do you want specifics or overall?

    For instance, I think he's handling the economy as well as I could have expected. Would you like specifics on that? I'm sure I could bore you with details, but I'll spare you for now and focus on foreign policy and domestics:

    I think he's got a good plan on the ground in Iraq and a winning plan in Afghanistan. I also support the drone-attacks in Waziristan. I think he was crafty in his orders regarding the pirates. I also support his movements towards rebuilding a lost relationship with Cuba. Finally, I'm pretty happy with relations with Israel. I was very upset when I heard Chas Freeman was going to be given a senior post, but I'm glad he was forced to have his name pulled. Finally, I'm pretty happy with the new Pentagon budget. It's still way too porky for me, but at least he's started the ball rolling on dumping the Cold War era weaponry that we're still building.

    Regarding domestic issues, I'm very happy he got SCHIP passed so quickly. I'm also right behind him on the carbon credits push. I'm not at all excited by the whole faith council thing he's setting up. I think that's simply a PR stunt that's he's just going to end up wasting time on.
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