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  1. #16
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    the cubs will be fine in 2-3 because they will JUST SPEND MORE MONEY!!! i will put money that we dont spend half of the freed up money we have this offseason. sandy is a joke. he doesnt believe in speed at all, i dunno if we stole a base today but if we didnt we have had one the entire month of july and it was by greg maddux. great baseball man there o yea mawp how do you feel about an advanced scout, lets ask the "baseball man" about that one
    Quote Originally Posted by gkar View Post
    Why be rational when you can do this and then keep getting after a great Padre win?

  2. #17
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    Are we forgetting that this team nearly won 90 games the past 2 years while having a payroll in the bottom third of MLB?

    Sandy joined the team in 2005, and the team proceeded to have its two best consecutive seasons in a long time, and possibly ever.

    the cubs will be fine in 2-3 because they will JUST SPEND MORE MONEY!!! i will put money that we dont spend half of the freed up money we have this offseason. sandy is a joke. he doesnt believe in speed at all, i dunno if we stole a base today but if we didnt we have had one the entire month of july and it was by greg maddux. great baseball man there o yea mawp how do you feel about an advanced scout, lets ask the "baseball man" about that one
    Paul explains why speed isn't as necessary as you think:

    http://itmightbedangerous.blogspot.c...d-defense.html
    Last edited by Seamhead; 07-23-2008 at 09:58 PM.

  3. #18
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    ok thats great but when dumb and dumber built our park they didnt take into account the heavier ocean air and on top of that they made the gaps resemble death valley. How many homeruns go to the gaps in petco? not very many and the ones that do are BOMBS balls that would be out anywhere but how many ball die there at the warning track? alot. down the lines would be perfect for a power hitter but we dont find power hitters that do that. this is why petco gets the rap for being a pitchers park but there is guy named tony gwynn, perhaps you have heard of him? he was pretty good in his day and he said he would of loved to play in this park because there is so much room for a hit to fall. SO that being said what type of hitter resembles the way tony hit? a leadoff hitter would be the answer, a guy who can spray the ball a dump in a bunch of base hits. dare i say i juan pierre type of guy. if he can get 200 hits in dodger stadium he can get more than that here. now lets say a guy leads off with a bloop single or even a sharply hit single in the spacious outfield now if he is fast he can steal 2nd and there you have it a double! now when the the next guy gets a single (because you built your team like this) you have a run! now it took 2 hits to get that one run rather than just that one swing by a power hitter but which is the higher %? im now completely pulling #'s from the back of my head but isnt a ridiculous homer per ab ratio like 1 to 8? well if this is true then joe power hitter would 1 homerun every 2 games. now a guy who can hit .290 or .300 on most night will get a hit maybe 2 (we all know it works out to some night ofer and the next 2-3 or 2-4 but bear with me for the ex) so say in his ab where he gets a hit he attempts to steal a great caught stealing rate for a catcher is 30% yea? so that means 7 out of 10 times that runner steals the base if my math is sharp. the chances that a guy can get a hit and steal a base (if he has SPEED) seem to be much greater than a guy hitting a homerun. so tell paul to shove that one up sandy's ***
    Quote Originally Posted by gkar View Post
    Why be rational when you can do this and then keep getting after a great Padre win?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by giles and giles View Post
    ok thats great but when dumb and dumber built our park they didnt take into account the heavier ocean air and on top of that they made the gaps resemble death valley. How many homeruns go to the gaps in petco? not very many and the ones that do are BOMBS balls that would be out anywhere but how many ball die there at the warning track? alot. down the lines would be perfect for a power hitter but we dont find power hitters that do that. this is why petco gets the rap for being a pitchers park but there is guy named tony gwynn, perhaps you have heard of him? he was pretty good in his day and he said he would of loved to play in this park because there is so much room for a hit to fall. SO that being said what type of hitter resembles the way tony hit? a leadoff hitter would be the answer, a guy who can spray the ball a dump in a bunch of base hits. dare i say i juan pierre type of guy. if he can get 200 hits in dodger stadium he can get more than that here. now lets say a guy leads off with a bloop single or even a sharply hit single in the spacious outfield now if he is fast he can steal 2nd and there you have it a double! now when the the next guy gets a single (because you built your team like this) you have a run! now it took 2 hits to get that one run rather than just that one swing by a power hitter but which is the higher %? im now completely pulling #'s from the back of my head but isnt a ridiculous homer per ab ratio like 1 to 8? well if this is true then joe power hitter would 1 homerun every 2 games. now a guy who can hit .290 or .300 on most night will get a hit maybe 2 (we all know it works out to some night ofer and the next 2-3 or 2-4 but bear with me for the ex) so say in his ab where he gets a hit he attempts to steal a great caught stealing rate for a catcher is 30% yea? so that means 7 out of 10 times that runner steals the base if my math is sharp. the chances that a guy can get a hit and steal a base (if he has SPEED) seem to be much greater than a guy hitting a homerun. so tell paul to shove that one up sandy's ***
    Can you please fix your post as to where I can read it?

  5. #20
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    i have a hard time believing the farm system has anything to do with this i mean this team has been a contender the last couple years the only reason were having this crappy season is because we get rid of guys or young talent that we shouldnt of like jason bay x nady etc.. and we let good veteran guys go for no reason like bradley ramon hernandez(if anyone remembers him) and dave roberts we need to have somebody in management who knows the players we can get rid of and the ones you need to keep

  6. #21
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    power may be a way to win games but it is more important to build your team around your park. petco gets its rap of a pitchers park from its gaps, they are huge, not to mention the heavier ocean air. how many balls die at the track and are fly ball outs? the answer is ALOT! however tony gwynn has been on record saying he would love to play in petco because there is so much room for a hit to fall, which is true. all that being said it makes alot more sense to put guys in your lineup who just get hits. most hitters who do this tend to be leadoff hitters or guys with speed because usally it is power or speed with a guy. So say the padres decide to put more team speed in the lineup. The leadoff hitter can lead off the game with a single weather it be hard hit or a bloop to petcos spacious outfield. he can then steal 2nd and its like hitting a double then if the next guy in the same type of hitter and can just get a single you now have scored a run. all the #'s prob got confusing here they are again:

    a ridulous homer to ab ratio is what 1 homers per 8 ab's? i mean that is barry bonds record breaking status. now say you have that hitter theoretically (sp?) that means he is only going to hit a homerun every other game. now a great hitter hits a little over .300 which is getting a hit about every game maybe a little less. and if a catcher throws out about 30% of base stealers he is a pretty good catcher. now try to stay with me if a guy gets a hit about once a game (33% chance 1-3) and steals a base (70%) chance he is safe he has a much greater chance of scoring because the rest of his team is built to the park and just get a ton of hits in that huge OF. look i think you need power in a lineup but you also need speed, more speed than power. USUALLY speed comes with a much better avg. than a power hitter. I just thought of this saying: speed can never slump, its always fast but power can slump.
    Quote Originally Posted by gkar View Post
    Why be rational when you can do this and then keep getting after a great Padre win?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by giles and giles View Post
    power may be a way to win games but it is more important to build your team around your park. petco gets its rap of a pitchers park from its gaps, they are huge, not to mention the heavier ocean air. how many balls die at the track and are fly ball outs? the answer is ALOT! however tony gwynn has been on record saying he would love to play in petco because there is so much room for a hit to fall, which is true. all that being said it makes alot more sense to put guys in your lineup who just get hits. most hitters who do this tend to be leadoff hitters or guys with speed because usally it is power or speed with a guy. So say the padres decide to put more team speed in the lineup. The leadoff hitter can lead off the game with a single weather it be hard hit or a bloop to petcos spacious outfield. he can then steal 2nd and its like hitting a double then if the next guy in the same type of hitter and can just get a single you now have scored a run. all the #'s prob got confusing here they are again:

    a ridulous homer to ab ratio is what 1 homers per 8 ab's? i mean that is barry bonds record breaking status. now say you have that hitter theoretically (sp?) that means he is only going to hit a homerun every other game. now a great hitter hits a little over .300 which is getting a hit about every game maybe a little less. and if a catcher throws out about 30% of base stealers he is a pretty good catcher. now try to stay with me if a guy gets a hit about once a game (33% chance 1-3) and steals a base (70%) chance he is safe he has a much greater chance of scoring because the rest of his team is built to the park and just get a ton of hits in that huge OF. look i think you need power in a lineup but you also need speed, more speed than power. USUALLY speed comes with a much better avg. than a power hitter. I just thought of this saying: speed can never slump, its always fast but power can slump.
    So you're going to build an offense around singles hitters that don't get on base (IE: Juan Pierre). Good luck with that. What are you going to do the other 81 games.....scrap and bunt your way to 1 run a game?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamhead View Post
    So you're going to build an offense around singles hitters that don't get on base (IE: Juan Pierre). Good luck with that. What are you going to do the other 81 games.....scrap and bunt your way to 1 run a game?
    umm i said you need power in the lineup i just dont think you need alot. but to answer the other 81 games there are three other parks in the NL west that happen to have alot of room for a hit to fall so that takes care of 27 of them but last time i checked in every single MLB park the bases are 90ft so speed doesnt change. your offense would be CONSISTANT! to me a perfect lineup would be:

    blazing fast guy
    solid bat handler, hit and run high avg guy
    power hitter
    power hitter
    solid bat handler
    fast guy, can make somehting happen on the basepaths
    fast guy
    pitcher
    fast guy

    you got speed at the top so he can get on steal a base and get drivin in by the #2 hitter 3 and 4 can be guys who "scare" the other team #5 would prob be your best contact hitter as most of the time people would be on base. the rest of the lineup would be guys who are fast who put the ball in play. make the other team make mistakes put pressure on the other team.

    have you ever played the INF? what scares causes more errors a ball hit hard by a big slow guy or a ball that isnt hit as hard but you have to rush to make a good throw cuz the guy is fast?

    have you ever pitched? what worse having a big power guy on first after a walk or having a speedy guy on after a single? answer the speedy guy becausse the fact that he is gonna take 2nd is in the back of your mind, you cant just get the ball in throw you have to think about him. i know your going to say well you have to think about a power hitter when he is at the plate but that is your job as the pitcher think about the hitter and what to throw him
    Quote Originally Posted by gkar View Post
    Why be rational when you can do this and then keep getting after a great Padre win?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by giles and giles View Post
    umm i said you need power in the lineup i just dont think you need alot. but to answer the other 81 games there are three other parks in the NL west that happen to have alot of room for a hit to fall so that takes care of 27 of them but last time i checked in every single MLB park the bases are 90ft so speed doesnt change. your offense would be CONSISTANT! to me a perfect lineup would be:

    blazing fast guy
    solid bat handler, hit and run high avg guy
    power hitter
    power hitter
    solid bat handler
    fast guy, can make somehting happen on the basepaths
    fast guy
    pitcher
    fast guy

    you got speed at the top so he can get on steal a base and get drivin in by the #2 hitter 3 and 4 can be guys who "scare" the other team #5 would prob be your best contact hitter as most of the time people would be on base. the rest of the lineup would be guys who are fast who put the ball in play. make the other team make mistakes put pressure on the other team.

    have you ever played the INF? what scares causes more errors a ball hit hard by a big slow guy or a ball that isnt hit as hard but you have to rush to make a good throw cuz the guy is fast?

    have you ever pitched? what worse having a big power guy on first after a walk or having a speedy guy on after a single? answer the speedy guy becausse the fact that he is gonna take 2nd is in the back of your mind, you cant just get the ball in throw you have to think about him. i know your going to say well you have to think about a power hitter when he is at the plate but that is your job as the pitcher think about the hitter and what to throw him
    That team might score 60 runs in a season. Maybe. The two most important things in baseball in order to score runs are getting on base and slugging. That team would provide very little of either. Speed is like 10th on the list.

  10. #25
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    ^ i'd put avg. w/ RISP above slugging

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by friarfan07 View Post
    ^ i'd put avg. w/ RISP above slugging
    Hitting with runners in scoring position is not a skill. You'd be trading for something that is not there.

    Plus, OBP and slugging % are the two things that correlate the best with scoring runs.

  12. #27
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    how is hitting with RISP any less a skill than being able to get on base?

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by friarfan07 View Post
    how is hitting with RISP any less a skill than being able to get on base?
    Because players don't control when they hit, they just hit. The research has already been done, and there is NO year-to-year correlation for hitting with runners in scoring position. The same has been done for "Clutch", and most studies find NO clutch hitting. There have been some that found a little bit of ability, but it was nothing significant.

  14. #29
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    ^ you would say, however, that some guys have the ability to hit better with runners in scoring position than other guys, whether it be a physical or psychological thing, right? i personally think that, while you are correct in citing statistical analysis as having proven slg. % and OBP to be the two best indicators of offensive success, there is more to consider than just stats, since the game isn't played on paper. i'd rather have a guy who gets on base a little less but who has shown he is confident when coming up to hit in clutch situations as when guys are in scoring position.

    i've always enjoyed that fact about baseball: that sometimes, the game transcends numbers. i wouldn't say it's a game of feel, but it isn't as cut and dry as numbers all the time either.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by friarfan07 View Post
    ^ you would say, however, that some guys have the ability to hit better with runners in scoring position than other guys, whether it be a physical or psychological thing, right? i personally think that, while you are correct in citing statistical analysis as having proven slg. % and OBP to be the two best indicators of offensive success, there is more to consider than just stats, since the game isn't played on paper. i'd rather have a guy who gets on base a little less but who has shown he is confident when coming up to hit in clutch situations as when guys are in scoring position.

    i've always enjoyed that fact about baseball: that sometimes, the game transcends numbers. i wouldn't say it's a game of feel, but it isn't as cut and dry as numbers all the time either.
    There is no clutch ability or ability to hit with RISP. Some guys are better at hitting in the clutch: the same players that are better at hitting in every other situation.

    There are things that can't be quantified in baseball, just like in every other sport, it's just that in baseball they don't matter as much, and I can say that from personal experience (play baseball and soccer). There aren't many situations where you interact with your teammates on the field. Baseball is a game of isolated events, unlike soccer, basketball, etc.

    I believe that there are clutch situations, just not clutch players. Here's a very good study on clutch hitting:

    http://www.retrosheet.org/Research/R...clutch_art.htm
    Last edited by Seamhead; 07-25-2008 at 05:25 PM.

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