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  1. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    After Lester's 3rd start I said to someone if he stays healthy he's a HoF'er. So I have lots of reasons to like him and hope. But, the AL strike zone is against him, and if they do go 55 more starts the next two years with im, and he's a 5.38 ERA, they will get little for him, and moreover they can't use him because the Masterson's of the world will displace him.

    So, they have to decide. I do not think the decision is coming this year. But the first few months of '09 is critical.

  2. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by lil'papi View Post
    HUH?
    He is BIGGER and STRONGER than Buchholz by a country mile. Buchholz was at API to gain some weight and get stronger.
    Buchholz is younger! Will Buchholz improve? Not according to your dumbed down theory. So neither Lester nor Buchholz will ever improve.
    Might as well trade them both!

    This makes ABSOLUTELY no sense whatsoever. Did Maddox improve over his first year, how about Schilling did he ever improve, ok how about PEDRO, Beckett, Tom Glavine so we might as well move Dice K too.

    Complete nonsense. He has thrown about 23 games at the ML level maybe a few other appearances. To say he won't get better is like saying when you first got your driving license you never improved. He has a grand total of 164 innings pitched over a three year span.

    Maybe you didn't after that post?

    Lester has the potential , he has a pitchers frame and we need to thoroughly explore his ability before saying silly things. He is also a lefty, like Pettitte , which also took time for him to develope.
    We NEED a lefty in the rotation. Were you singing his demise last year against Cleveland?
    All those pitchers you mentioned all started to pitched to their HOF credentials in about the same amount of innings as lester in which they had consistent starts, while pedro was in the low 2 and sometimes mid to high 1 era, schilling and maddux were around 3 to low 4 era, lester cant say the same and hes been in the ml off and on for 2 seasons. so your stupid theory that these pitchers need time to develop is ridiculous seeing that those pitchers you mentioned all pitched to their potential the same amount of innings in the ML. None of the pitchers mentioned had as bad of stats as lester when they had at least 100 innings. go look for yourself baseball-reference

    as mentioned earlier why the hell do we NEED a lefty in the rotation? that logic doesnt make sense whatsoever, what is it gonna do? confuse the batters bc its from a different viewpoint?

    Also, i forget what he did in cleveland but if i was looking at the right stats where he pitched 3 innings 2 er then im not really impressed, those numbers could be wrong but either way i never had any confidence in lester when he was gonna be our starter this year.
    Last edited by bosox1899; 04-19-2008 at 08:32 PM.

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    5,060
    Quote Originally Posted by bosox1899 View Post


    All those pitchers you mentioned all started to pitched to their HOF credentials in about the same amount of innings as lester in which they had consistent starts, while pedro was in the low 2 and sometimes mid to high 1 era, schilling and maddux were around 3 to low 4 era, lester cant say the same and hes been in the ml off and on for 2 seasons. so your stupid theory that these pitchers need time to develop is ridiculous seeing that those pitchers you mentioned all pitched to their potential the same amount of innings in the ML. None of the pitchers mentioned had as bad of stats as lester when they had at least 100 innings. go look for yourself baseball-reference

    as mentioned earlier why the hell do we NEED a lefty in the rotation? that logic doesnt make sense whatsoever, what is it gonna do? confuse the batters bc its from a different viewpoint?

    Also, i forget what he did in cleveland but if i was looking at the right stats where he pitched 3 innings 2 er then im not really impressed, those numbers could be wrong but either way i never had any confidence in lester when he was gonna be our starter this year.
    You might want to re-check your stats...

    YES, lefties create a different issue. OK, lets use Jamie Moyer then......he has won more games in his 40's than his 20's. So he didn't improve either?

    I can see you never played.

    JON LESTER 12-4 4.70 era......

    Curt Schilling after a 100+ innings was 4-11 with a almost 4.00 era. So you lose that one....

    Maddox was 8-18........so you lose this one too. ERA in the 5 + range.

    Pedro although not stellar started well, BUT improved as he got innings!

    Pettitte 12-9 4.17........he got alot better after that!

    Glavine 9-21 with a 5+ ERA!

    Beckett 8-9 with a 4 ERA!

    You might want to go look yourself. Then show me one guy that didn't improve dramatically over the next few years.

  4. #49
    first I did play baseball for over 10 years, second just because moyer was a good pitcher doesnt prove that teams NEED a lefty, we already won a WS without one as someone mentioned..

    Pedro not steller?! Becketts not stellar but still better and pettite was about the same as beckett
    Code:
      Year Ag Tm  Lg  W   L   G   GS  CG SHO  GF SV   IP     H    R   ER   HR  BB   SO  HBP  WP  BFP  IBB  BK  ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
    
    Pedro Martinez
    
     1992 20 LAD NL   0   1   2   1   0   0   1  0    8.0    6    2    2   0    1    8   0   0    31   0   0  2.25  3.47  154 0.875
     1993 21 LAD NL  10   5  65   2   0   0  20  2  107.0   76   34   31   5   57  119   4   3   444   4   1  2.61  3.84  147 1.243 RoY-9
     1994 22 MON NL  11   5  24  23   1   1   1  1  144.7  115   58   55  11   45  142  11   6   584   3   0  3.42  4.26  125 1.106
     1995 23 MON NL  14  10  30  30   2   2   0  0  194.7  158   79   76  21   66  174  11   5   784   1   2  3.51  4.31  123 1.151
    
    Josh Beckett
     2001 21 FLA NL   2   2   4   4   0   0   0  0   24.0   14    9    4   3   11   24   1   1    99   0   0  1.50  4.23  282 1.042
     2002 22 FLA NL   6   7  23  21   0   0   0  0  107.7   93   56   49  13   44  113   1   5   454   2   0  4.10  4.03   98 1.272
     2003 23 FLA NL   9   8  24  23   0   0   1  0  142.0  132   54   48   9   56  152   2   6   601   4   1  3.04  4.20  138 1.324
    Andy Pettite
    
     1995 23 NYY AL  12   9  31  26   3   0   1  0  175.0  183   86   81  15   63  114   1   8   745   3   1  4.17  4.63  111 1.406 RoY-3
     1996 24 NYY AL  21   8  35  34   2   0   1  0  221.0  229  105   95  23   72  162   3   6   929   2   1  3.87  5.00  129 1.362 MVP-14,CYA-2,AS
     1997 25 NYY AL  18   7  35  35   4   1   0  0  240.3  233   86   77   7   65  166   3   7   986   0   0  2.88  4.48  155 1.240 CYA-5
    Pedro won the ROY how is that not stellar? Well i win that one
    Beckett had a 4.1 era still better than the 4.7 with less walks and more strikeouts so i win that one too i guess
    Pettite had a 4.17 era again better than Lester

    point being is that most of those pitchers showed a slightest bit of command, so far lester has gotten worse by the innings, 4.7 now hes at a ~5.10, he hasnt shown any signs of pitching to his potential like many of those other pitchers, but lets give him a full season then ill have a better argument, my prediction would be around 190 innings, 4.90 era, 100+ BBs, 100 Ks, 7-10 (W/L)
    Last edited by bosox1899; 04-20-2008 at 10:00 AM.

  5. #50
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    Feb 2008
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    801
    Quote Originally Posted by RedSoxtober View Post
    I think only disgruntled fans think that this is Lester's last chance. Like Hansen, he's been hyped for so long he seems like he's been around forever and worn out his welcome but the Sox/FO has a very different opinion. I don't disagree that he could become trade bait (maybe more so if Richardson/Hagadone progress enough to be considered LHP options in the near future), I just very much doubt that he's on a short leash with anyone but you and cocosox.
    I completely agree. If Lester has a couple good starts, they'll all be saying that they've stuck with him the whole time while everyone was down on him. Lester wouldn't benefit much from Pawtucket. His stuff has been great, but he's lacked endurance.

    Thanks to DeeMan for designing this sig.

    Am I the only one who finds it stupid to put politics in your signature? It's not like you're gonna convince anyone.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    837
    Lester just needs innings, period. Hits aside, I viewed last night's start as a step forward. For once, he did the one thing we've all been hounding him for: Pound the strike zone. He finally did, and I think for a stretch in about the 3rd-4th innings we saw what he can do when he's got command of all his stuff and has it working. We're all looking for him to suddenly snap out of it and start tossing zeros, but it's a process. It's going to take some time, and he may very well take a step back before he takes another step forward, but he's still only 24 and a year removed from chemotherapy. It is time we start seeing some production, but he missed a lot of development time.

  7. #52
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    Jul 2007
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    58
    Quote Originally Posted by bosox1899 View Post
    Pedro won the ROY how is that not stellar? Well i win that one
    Actually he was 9th in ROY voting

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Connecticut
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    237
    bring down lester, he had one good start and that was last night, and Buchholz has been pitching very well lately, but whenever he pitches he gets no run support. BRING LESTER DOWN!

  9. #54
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    buccholz's last start was worse than any of lester's starts thus far

    u people are ridiculous just leave both of them alone
    Jackie Bradley Junior.... that is all

  10. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by dieseleric View Post
    Actually he was 9th in ROY voting
    o ok i saw the ROY next to it wasnt completely sure what the 9 meant, but either way the fact that he was even considered meant he did very well

  11. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by papipapsmanny View Post
    buccholz's last start was worse than any of lester's starts thus far

    u people are ridiculous just leave both of them alone
    ur ridiculous for comparing one start to over 20

  12. #57
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    San Antonio, Tx
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    I think Lester is just more prepared to start at the Major League level right now


    Official Edmunds/Vea Crew

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosox1899 View Post
    ur ridiculous for comparing one start to over 20
    thus far this season u idiot

    I guess u would have kicked santana off your team as well
    Jackie Bradley Junior.... that is all

  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by papipapsmanny View Post
    thus far this season u idiot

    I guess u would have kicked santana off your team as well
    buchholz had 1 bad start against the yankees, your bff lester has maybe one decent start, but if you look at their stats, buchholz has been more consistent with his control and his era has been much lower than lesters. your comparison is still ridiculous even if its this season seeing buchholz has had one bad start compared to lesters 2 to 3, you idiot

    you re calling me an idiot? after that last sentence you shouldnt even be talking, how is santana even comparable to lester? santana as buchholz had one bad start but has been consistently above average, lester has gone past the 6 inning just twice and walking 3 to 5 batters on a consistent basis.
    Last edited by bosox1899; 04-20-2008 at 02:10 PM.

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    837
    Wow, you guys need to grow up and stop arguing like children. Arguing over who "won" and calling each other idiots? Jesus, c'mon.


    The fact is, Lester is not going to be an all time great, so comparing him to Pedro, Schilling, Johan, Maddux, etc is just foolish. He'll be a decent starter and an important piece to a winning team if he develops his command with potential for more if he can refine everything. He's not Maddux, he's not Pedro. He's more like Andy Pettite, decent, important, valuable.

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