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Having Wilt, Moses, Russell, Ewing, and Erving as high as they are is truly wild with this approach then.

I mean maybe? My biggest issue with this project is that it wasn't made clear if the ranking is relative to era or how each player would scale in the modern era.

Payton and Zeke weren't great off ball defenders, the other guys sure, they'd give Steph a tougher time. Although hand checks slowing down off ball action really isn't that great of an angle to take...

Well yeah, The name of the game is, how do you maintain value offense on better and better teams? I.e. ceiling raising vs floor raising. Curry can lead you to an all time great offense whether he's...

A lot of dumb noise going on in this thread that's not interesting, but Kawhi's placement is something of actual interest.

I can see him as high as 19, but I myself have him around 26. My issue...

lol AI hasn't done anything to warrant be considered in this conversation, and I'm a fan of the dude

My top 25 single season peaks relative to era -

MJ
Shaq
LBJ
Hakeem
Kareem
KG
Wilt
Steph

I know you mean well and aren't being disingenuous in your arguments, which I really appreciate. You should hop on the PSD Discord to talk hoops man. We got a good thing going in there.

Also if we really wanted to engage with a PER and Win Shares approach only, Moses's peak single season PER is 113th, and his single season Win Shares peak is 97th.....so uhhhhh......

YESSSSS. W O K E. Nate was such a per minute beast lol

Lmao yes it is. If anything, literally the opposite is true. If two players have the exact same production, but one player does so on less minutes, then he's literally more productive per possession...

What's wrong with that? If we are talking about a good player on a winning team who is contributing points/rebounds/assists/etc. then aren't the more minutes played the more valuable they are? Why...

Alright so cumulative stats like win shares and VORP are essentially a minutes played award. They have no methodology to actually pin point a player's direct impact on the court, isolated from...

I mean i'm also not a fan of the framing of the question itself. 1 game? In what era? With what teammates? Against what opponent? If we don't have these answers then we should immediately look at the...

Also here's the scaled APM data that integrates Harvey Pollack's data for 70s and 80s Sixers players:
...

1. Lol no, win shares and any accumulative stat (e.g. VORP) where it's literally impossible to have a negative number is garbage. There are much, much better metrics to reference, however, they're...

The Moses conundrum is essentially

- Received MVPs he didnt deserve/Weak MVPs
- People afterwards realize he's overrated and then don't talk about him much
Next Generation:
- This guy has MVPs...

1. Bobby Jones is an all time great defender period. Play by play data only goes back to '97, however Harvey Pollack manually tracked play by play data for the Sixers are far back as the 70s and...

Because he's not a peak guy. This is just a fundamental misunderstanding of his career. Sure, he had the herculean task of winning a title with 4 other all stars on his team. His all defense is also...

Except CP3 has consistently been great throughout his playoff career. KD out here averaging 31% from 3 in the postseason pre-Golden State

lmao who the **** voted Moses tenth. This list is mostly really, really bad. Gonna have to sit this out.

If you haven't already, I recommend reading through Ben Taylor's work on the value of longevity.

https://backpicks.com/2018/04/13/goat-meta-thoughts-and-longevity/

I mostly lean towards peaks...

These lists are mostly bait. Super ambiguous criteria, no mention of their methodology, and a ton of inconsistency in the things they value. The fact that their pretext is 100 or so words before...

Stockton is probably the most misunderstood player of his generation. He's the king of longevity no doubt. No one will ever touch the volume of assists he got. But the thing with Stockton is that the...

I guess it depends on what your criteria is. If you're a fan of innovation and accolades then sure, most of those dudes belong. But in terms of on the court impact, who I'd want to give me the best...