To begin with, we don't have Dustin May right now, so it was a luxury to have Urias coming out of the pen in the postseason.Quote:
Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero
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To begin with, we don't have Dustin May right now, so it was a luxury to have Urias coming out of the pen in the postseason.Quote:
Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero
We’ll, as true as that may be - we didn’t use Dustin May as a true starter in the playoffs. We also didn’t have Scherzer last year, and Buehler has been the best version of himself we’ve seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgerdave
Is it even debatable that this team has the best pitching staff in baseball this year?
Yeah, I think this is the best pitching staff we've had, at least in my lifetime. We have three legitimate aces and then Kershaw as a #4.Quote:
Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero
Not sure how you can call us haters, when about 95% of your posts are you hating on a historically great dodger team and then you cite these random blips to support these outlandish positions, like us losing to the d-backs and the rockies. The giants also lost to those teams, everyone loses to everyone they play over the course of a 162 game season. We've been amazing all year and especially since after the all-star break. You can take the greatest team of all time and put them up against the d-backs and rockies, where they play each other over and over again and I guarantee you that you will have a few games where they will beat the GOAT team ever. Not really sure why it's relevant to cite those random events as if they somehow mean something.Quote:
Originally Posted by lamar2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Moves03
The 1985 quartet of Valenzuela, Hershiser, Welch, and Reuss. 808 combined career wins.
Exactly my point and part of why he got the facepalm. But he also got the facepalm because he’s hedging and backpedaling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Moves03
His argument could essentially be rephrased into this…
Backpedaling; “I know I’ve spent 97% of the year dumping on this offense, but I’m not going to say I was wrong.”
Hedging his backpedal to preserve his inevitable future complaints; “However, they can’t win games if they don’t score runs” (yeah, duh)
Irrational; “You think 2-3 runs is an elite offense?”
Emotional (and ironic); “You’re like a Trump supporter ignoring facts” while he’s ignoring TONS of facts and the whole picture to focus on specific low points in the season.
Essentially, we lead the NL in runs, we lead in runs differential, but if you focus on a game where we got shutout, we suck.
:clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero
Maybe, I honestly wasn't old enough to assess the quality of those starters. I started following the dodgers as a kid in the late 80s (in 85 I was way too young to know much about baseball). To have three legitimate CY Young candidates is crazy, reminds me of the braves in the 90s with Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz, but we also have Kershaw and May (when at full strength), not to mention Gonsolin who is really good when healthy. If not for bad luck, we could've legitimately had a 7-man rotation if we wanted to (and from 4-7, those guys are easy #3s if not #2s on most teams)Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgerdave
Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgerdave
I was too young too (didn’t turn 4 until that Nov). When you look at the names and numbers, they were very impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Moves03
Remember though, offense in the ‘80s was not what it is now. As dominant as the traditional numbers for those starters are, the rest of the league performed much better too.
Orel had an amazing year with a 171 AdjERA+, Welch to with 150 Fernando with a 141.
The 2021 Dodgers have given significant starts to 7 pitchers, though I won’t list Bauer because he likely turns out to be merely a blip in our history.
Buehler; 164, 6.5 WAR
Scherzer; 165, 5.2
Urias; 134, 4.4
Kershaw; 121, 2.6, (21 starts)
Gonsolin; 127, 1.2 (13 starts)
May; 151, 0.5 (5 starts)
1 through 3 is comparable, but 1 through 5, this rotation is better than the ‘85 Dodgers relative to the rest of the league.
But then you also have to consider their respective pens, and it’s not remotely close.
1985 2021
Staff WAR. 17.3 28.8
ERA+ 115. 136
Does that mean the 2021 staff has more talented pitchers? Of course not conclusively. What it does mean is, relative to the rest of the league in their respective seasons, the 2021 staff has been performed better. They also happen to be the best in baseball
Yeah, these are great points. I think regardless of where one stands on this issue, the one thing that is clear is that we have historically great pitching that very few teams throughout history can compare to, especially when adjusting for relative performance compared to the rest of the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero
I had to make some edits after revisiting the 1985 numbers, but the point is still the same. From Ace to Closer and everything in between, the 2021 pitching staff as a whole has performed much better compared to their peers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Moves03
What a ****** way for Clayton to go out. Hope he’s ok.
I just logged on. What happened?
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Originally Posted by Big Moves03
Well, I was two in 1985, five in 1988, and didn't start watching baseball until 1991.Quote:
Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero
Was getting ripped in the 2nd and exited with Doc and the team trainerQuote:
Originally Posted by dodgerdave
Yeah, hopefully he's okayQuote:
Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero
Elite left-handed pitching seems to be this team's kryptonite (Snell, Lauer, etc.).
LOL. I always jinx this team in a positive way.
T. Turner coming through there. Some bad luck in that inning for us. Taylor and J. Turner both hit balls right on the nose and Seager just missed his pop up, very easily could've turned into an even bigger inning
I keep saying it, but no lead is safe against us. Our guys just grind out at bats and find ways to get on base and we literally have all-star caliber players 1-8 and a few off the bench and just about everyone can hit for power.
You just jumped the gun too soon lol...now we have to finish this off and get the WQuote:
Originally Posted by dodgerdave
Offense is getting hot just in time. Bring on the Cards. I will take our offense and Max over Cards any day or time of the week. Wainwright will not dominate us again.
The reigning, defending champs look ready to defend their title
Bro, you recently just posted that you felt we were going to lose in the WC game to the mighty, unstoppable Cards lol. I don't want to give you a hard time for rooting for the boys in blue, but cmon man dont be so reactionary. This is the same team we've been rooting for all season. We're the defending champs for a reason. I've been saying it all season, bring on whoever wants to take their shot. We have a great team my man, there's never been a reason to fear any team.Quote:
Originally Posted by lamar2006
:cheers:
Another nice win! 104! Two away from breaking our all-time wins record
Have you not read any of my posts???????? I have said 1000's of times if the offense shows up no team can beat us. If the offense that only scores 2-3 runs against the Dbacks, gets no hit by Cubs and other similar teams, then pretty much any team can beat us in a 1 game series. If this current offense show up on Wednesday I don't care who the Cardinals send out, we are beating them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Moves03
Now my question is Kershaw. They said elbow/forearm. Possibly TJ worst case scenario. Does he retire or does he try to come back in 2023? Maybe he regains his velocity after TJ and pitches into his late 30's. I don't think this is the way Kershaw wants to go out.
The Giants losing the next two games is highly unlikely.
It’s gonna be Tommy John for Kershaw. So ****ing dumb. I hope this isn’t the way he goes out.
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The other thing I've never understood is why David Price isn't a full-time starting pitcher.
Who confirmed it or is that is what you are thinking? Either way if he gets TJ he will be 35 by the time he comes back. He can still pitch another 2-3 years after that. Look @ Max and Verlander before he blew his elbow. They are still great late into their 30's. Maybe Keshaw comes back throwing 95mph fastballs again. But I don't think this is the way Kershaw goes out unless we win the WS.Quote:
Originally Posted by KobeOwnSU
The issue is that you only consider the "offense to be going" when we're putting 7-plus runs a game and any offense putting up that many runs a game is going to be close to unbeatable, especially with respectable pitching. That sort of thing also isnt feasible against good pitching. In the playoffs, teams tend to play at a very high level and low scoring games are usually the sign of a great playoff game. When teams are putting up more than 5 runs in the playoffs, it's usually the sign that the pitching wasnt great. Pitching dominates baseball and great pitching usually completely shuts down the greatest of offenses. I certainly don't expect our path to a title to be filled with too many 7-plus run games. The other issue of course is that the notion that "the offense needs to wake up" was never an issue. The offense is the best in the NL and really in the league when you factor in the DH. That's why I said you need to stop being so reactionary, because every single team goes through increases and decreases in their scoring and we happen to do it less than if not all others. It's ups and downs are inevitable over a long 162-game season.Quote:
Originally Posted by lamar2006
Just connecting dots. He came back from elbow discomfort only to have forearm discomfort. I’ve heard that before and it almost always leads to Tommy John.Quote:
Originally Posted by lamar2006
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I noticed that spliff was un-permabanned. :facepalm:
This place is a lot more peaceful without him.
I was just going to say exactly this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Moves03
7 runs is just as normal for this team as 3 runs. It’s why we average more than 5 runs a game.
In 2020, when all teams had the DH, we crushed the league in runs per game.
The issue is exactly what you and I have been pointing to all season; it’s micro-criticisms blown out of proportion and then cherry picked for argument as if those occurrences norm. We lose a game and either the offense sucks, or the starters suck, or the bullpen sucks, or the closer sucks, or the manager sucks, or the front office sucks, or some combination thereof.
You can’t knock the offense for losing in a game where we score 5 runs and expect to be taken seriously. You can’t nitpick one-off games where they didn’t produce as evidence that they aren’t good when the macro says they’re the best in the league. You can’t say when the offense is struggling that the injuries don’t matter when the track records of the players on the roster suggest this is arguably one of the most talented teams ever to take the field.
You can’t knock the offense and the pitching staff and the front office, AND then also knock the manager by saying the players (and the front office that put them on the roster) bail the manager out all the time.
You can’t wash away reactionary criticisms and knockdown, drag out arguments with empty praise when everyone knows that your reactionary response to minute by minute production will wash it all away again.
It’s like he just doesn’t want to admit he was wrong… about anything… ever… so he says both things so he can look back and reassure himself with empty comments like,, “I was right, we could only win the World Series if we score more runs more times than all the other teams. Those are facts.”
:facepalm:
Speaking of admitting when we’re wrong, it’s not something I was ready to do with regard to Kenley even as he had great production in the first half.
Not to say I was wrong in my criticisms; he dialed up the velocity at the cost of his control and was putting too many people on base for me to be comfortable with. I’m also still not fond of his apparent entitlement, lack of accountability, and that he seems to be a bit arrogant (refer to his comments about not getting added to the all-star team). That said, I was wrong about his willingness to put in the work to improve.
To me it felt like he didn’t think he had to work anymore once he got his contract but, though he’s in a contract year again, he has shown willingness to improve and, with it, the ability to remain elite as the year has progressed. He started the year with increased velo, but poor control. Since he had that hiccup after the all-star break, he’s also improved his control.
Since August 4th Kenley’s bb/9 are down to 2.5 p/9 and his ERA is down to a minuscule 1.26. This is the Kenley we need for the playoffs, and if we have that guy, he can be as entitled and arrogant as he wants.
Padres beat the Giants 3-2…Still a chance.
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I would literally die of laughter if Giants end up losing tomorrow, lose the division game against us, then end up losing the WC game. But either way odds still favor Giants to win the division. If we win tonight. I expect the Padres to send out the taxi squad to face them tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by KobeOwnSU
:clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero
Justin ****ing Turner!!
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So it looks like the difference in the division might end up being that horrible blown call by the umpire on the "check swing". That's a two game swing, because we would have one more game and the giants would have one less. You hate for something like that to potentially be the deciding factor