So far Joc KB and Rizzo are in the postseason, waiting on Schwarber ...
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So far Joc KB and Rizzo are in the postseason, waiting on Schwarber ...
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Dodgers into the wildcard game, on 106 wins. Damn.
Yeah and they play the CardinalsQuote:
Originally Posted by JHBulls
So at least 1 of my least favorite NL team will be eliminated right away..lol
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LOL yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by chibears55
Not sure which loss is more in the Cubs self-interests. I'll root for the Dodgers to lose as they are more of a threat to the players we may want to sign this winter and a playoff run will fill their coffers even more. Stacked team though, i'm glad for the Giants I guess, it's nice to see surprises. Sad for long-suffering Padres fans.
Yanks and Bosox in the wildcard. The fix is in. Jays remind me of 2018-2019 Cubs. Score a lot or not at all, and underachieve with a stupid manager that can't juggle a bullpen. Bo Bichette is a hell of a ballplayer.
It hurts me inside to watch Rizzo look stressed, because we know how much fun he likes to have playing the game. Relax Tony, everything will be ok.
Alrighty.... looking forward to seeing what we are gonna do this offseason. Id be down for Correa or Seager this year then moving on Trea Turner next (if he is still available. Im not sold on Hoerner but I do like him just dont feel like he can trusted to stay healthy. Wish we could sign Scherzer but it doesnt make sense with this team and I'm not sure who does at this point. I think we are two years away from actually competing so IM not sure what pitcher will want to come here.
Dont forget Kimbrel and TeperaQuote:
Originally Posted by chibears55
I'd like to see the Rays win the WS. I root for fan bases over teams really.
Can't stand the Brewers but would be happy for the fans. Same with White Sox.
A while back someone asked here who would take the over or under of Cubs win total at 65. I picked under and jokingly said maybe it should be using 60. Well, our"kids" finished at 71 wins and I'm actually proud of how hard and well they played this September, especially after Covid and injuries reduced them to playing third (and in a couple of cases fourth) stringers. Many of those that wore Cubs Blue this September (perhaps most or almost all) won't be on the team's 2022 Opening Day roster, but no one can say they didn't try their best. Thanks!
Yes on RaysQuote:
Originally Posted by Stratos
100% heck no on the Brewers. Crybaby fans and organization
Come on you know it gonna end up being a Bryzzo World Series [emoji1787]Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratos
Giants and Yankees
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Nobody could win that series, the universe would explode.Quote:
Originally Posted by chibears55
Ive been thinking about who I would like to win the WS. Some factors that have been swaying me back and forth are team likeability, formers Cubs, fan base etc
1) Tampa Bay Rays - How this organization stays relevant with such a small payroll is beyond me but id love to see a tem win it all while spending a little more than a 1/3 the highest payroll.
2) Boston - Always felt like they were the "Cubs" of the AL. Rabid fans and a team filled with history. Plus Schwarbs is there!
3) Atlanta - This would probably be more of a nostalgic pick due to TBS broadcasting their games when I was young. Side bar: This is also why I am Cubs fan despite having no ties to Chicago, Thanks WGN!
4) New York Yankees - This is purely a Rizzo pick as I hate the Yankees.
5) Chicago WS - Seems like a well put together team but the fanbase keeps me from wanting this any higher.
6) Los Angeles - Ho Hum if they win. Wouldn't be excited but wouldn't be upset. A team that spends that much should be in it every year.
7) San Francisco - Never cared for this team (probably still some animosity for Bonds being so loved despite being a steroid user) KB moves the needle a little but I have no love for him personally.
8) Houston - Who knows what cheats they're doing this year?
9) Milwaukee - I cant stand this whiny organization. They just seem like they're jealous of the Cubs fanbase.
10) St Louis - Any explanation needed?
If anyone from 1-3 win, I'll be happy. 4-7 would be ho hum and I'd be disappointed if 8-10 won it all.
This years playoffs feels so blah to me. No real fun exciting teams in the playoffs, sans maybe the WS. It got the same 4-5 teams (NYY/BOS/STL/ATL/LAD)in the playoffs, got the reigning cheaters, no Trout/Ohtani, no Tats, no Blue Jays youngsters, and of course no Cubs. I think I'd rather watch paint dry on the wall than watch these playoffs.
What I'd like to see (if I was watching the playoffs) would be an all-SEC World Series: ATL/Tampa Bay. Those are the two teams that I have no real feelings about and might be the only match I would watch in the World Series.
But what's likely to happen is a bloody rematch in the WS. A combination of NYY, BOS, LAD, STL, HOU, will probably will be the match and imo that will be a..............SKIP.
Tampa doesn't even deserve a team. They average 9,500 fans a game. To me, that's a terrible fan base. Everybody has an excuse from location, to heat. But at the end of they day, they don't show up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratos
They needed a decent stadium a long time ago. Florida has tons of baseball fans but they really nerfed the 2 Florida franchises.Quote:
Originally Posted by thawv
I havent seen heat as an excuse, considering it's in a dome lol [emoji23]Quote:
Originally Posted by thawv
Agreed. They should make a full time move in a few years instead of this half and half plan they are promoting with Montreal. There are lots of good options for a new team like Montreal, Charlotte, Nashville, Portland, Vegas.Quote:
Originally Posted by thawv
Tampa Bay deserves to have a fair shake at having a team; as of right now, the Rays have been given nothing fair. They haphazardly threw together a horrible baseball field, in a horrible location to meet expansion deadlines. They quickly threw together a proposal and this is the outcome; a **** field, in a horrible space for accessibility. Fans show up for things like the Buccaneers (they're hitting 98% capacity this year). Their NHL team hit 5th in the NHL in 2019-2020, too. Both teams are winning championships in front of sellout crowds. Tampa Bay is not a traditional "hockey" town, located in warm climate with no hockey history prior to the Lightening, but they go to the game in numbers (hitting 99.7% capacity in their last "full" season of fans). The issue is that Tropicana Field is located in a stupid locale and fans have zero reason to go, and it's strikingly clear that this is why we see 98/99% capacity for two championship winners in the same city, and the abhorrent attendance for the third, also, a championship caliber team.
The distance between Raymond James (Buccaneers) and Amalie Arena (Lightening) is 5.3 miles. Both are located downtown Tampa and are easily accessible. Tropicana is 21.3 miles away from Amalie and almost 30 from Raymond James! It's not even in Tampa Bay. There is no public transport like a train that runs between the two. It takes hours to get there from Tampa with traffic (there are only 2 roadways into St. Pete, both are bridges, there's no way around them) and they get backed up to hell on weeknights with rushhour traffic. The quicker of the two routes is a toll road, too. And then you get a dingey *** stadium to boot for your trouble and being up stupid late when you can watch every game on TV. Why would anyone brave the traffic, to pay MLB prices, to sit in traffic, to be up until past 12am on a weeknight, while paying tolls both way on top of it? Hell, why waste an entire weekend day doing that? It's not like you end up at Fenway or Wrigley for your troubles. You get the ugliest stadium after the hellacious commute.
Tampa Bay hasn't proven or disproven they don't deserve a baseball team but they have proven to support winning teams time and time again in other sports. It's a great study of how horrible the planning was for the Rays. Blaming Tampa isn't the right thing. Maybe they need to move, but I think they just need a good set up. Tampa is likely one...if they actually have a real home. If not, then move them to somewhere else. But much of the issues that plagued Montreal (horrible field, location, etc) that caused them to move is why we have a Tampa issue right now. I'm for leaving them in Tampa Bay...with a real field, and a real location if possible. Tampa supports sports teams, especially winners. The reason they don't go to games for the Rays is pretty simple and shows up in attendance numbers; it's where they have to go to support them, not the team, not the sport. Baseball can work in Tampa. It just needs to be in Tampa to do so. It's a shame that such an awesome franchise has been marooned on an island (almost literally) by the original planners 30 years ago; the on field product doesn't deserve to be stashed away like that.
I know the park sucks and the location sucks, but I’m highly skeptical that MLB works in the Tampa area. They averaged 9400 a game this year and attendance has been a steady decline from the low 20’s per game in 2008-2010 to where it is now even though they keep winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs
The Bucs are in the NFL and have 8 or 9 Sundays to sell. While Tampa isn’t a traditional hockey market, the lightning have actually been popular for a long time. I lived in that area back in the mid 2000’s and the Lightning were much more popular than the Rays then. The Rays were a disaster when I was there, but the Lightning were popular. My theory was that because of the season they play and the fact that it’s generally a less popular sport, transplants and snowbirds were more likely to adopt the lighting than to adopt a local baseball team. There were tons of Yankee/Red Sox/Cubs/Braves/Cards fans around when I lived down there. But it’s just a theory.
A nice new park in downtown Tampa would increase attendance without a doubt. I’m very skeptical that it would increase attendance to the point where they’d draw well after the first year or so in the new park. There are probably a handful of other cities without a team where they’d do better.
I hope they get out of the Trop one way or another, but it would be a bummer if it was another Marlins situation.
I've heard of the heat. I guess people just don't want to leave the house unless they're going to water. I can only assume.Quote:
Originally Posted by WOwolfOL
On the field, I hope the Rays lose in the playoffs. I like a lot of their players and I respect how they sustain success, but I just hate their model.
They never go in. They never spend competitively. They make it to game 6 of the WS and trade one of their best starters while adding very little from the outside. The trade worked out since Snell had a bad year. It’s always easier to sell than buy, but the point is that they were on the verge of winning it all and intentionally got worse because that’s what they do. They have insane amounts of very good prospects but they never trade for Trea Turner or Scherzer or Machado or Darvish or Betts. Their goal is to be the frequently competitive team with the tiny payroll and they can achieve that goal with no attendance. The teams that pay the Rays payroll through revenue sharing have the burden of expectations from fans. When those teams are close, they need to try to get better, not worse.
People talk about how big market teams should emulate them, but you can’t do that in a market where there are expectations. The Dodgers have taken the best parts of the Rays model and combined it with the best parts of being a major market team. That’s the organization to emulate.
Eventually the Rays will probably win one because they are frequently good and they get a lot of shots at the playoffs, but I’m not rooting for them.
If every team acted like the Rays, the sport would die.
So, would you be willing to take a chance on building a state of the art stadium in Tampa, and hope they start packing fans in? There's also a chance that it just might not be a big baseball town, couple with everything you mentioned. Which are clearly valid points. The Bucks and the Lightening also don't play on a daily basis every other week in the middle of the summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs
Either way, I think there are other cities that would love to have a team and would put many more fans in the stadium.
If the Cubs signed the same players they did this off season but never made any of the trades (including Darvish). Do you guys think they would have won the division over the Brewers or Wild Card over the Cardinals? Would you have preferred that they did rather than making the trades?
I think the Cubs would not have lost 11 in a row with Darvish on the team and might have added at the deadline. That team still would not have been good enough to win the division. They might have challenged for the wild card but I wouldn't want to be in a wild card situation where you're up against a 105 win team with Scherzer on the mound. I guess all things considered the Cubs picked a good year to rebuild/retool whatever you wanna call it.
Im pulling for the Rays or Giants. I know the Giants have had a ton of success but I want KB to get another ring and id like to Longoria back in the WS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratos
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Tampa Bay supports two other sports at the very top of the attendance charts, one of which has no business being successful in their state, yet is. The primary difference is the location in where they play. There's zero data to make me believe Tampa Bay hates baseball, but based on their support of other teams, it's quite easy to inference they hate driving to St. Petersburg to go to the Trop. The Lightening play 41 home games, many on week nights and they do fine. If the argument is "it's nice in FL in the summer", it's nice in the summer most places and people go. I see no evidence to think that the people of Tampa Bay won't go to weeknight events if it's actually made possible or weekend games. Right now, a weeknight game especially is made a near impossibility for many.Quote:
Originally Posted by thawv
We do know that Montreal has already failed and we have as much data on Tampa Bay supporting weeknight games in an available location as we do, say, Vegas and Nashville (both have hockey and football and support them fine). We have no data on a few places up for debate. I think placing the team in Nashville is about the same gamble as a prime-Tampa location would be; we have data that suggests they support winners in football and hockey, and no data that a prime city-baseball location would support weeknight games on the regular. Same for Vegas. So if Tampa Bay is a gamble; they basically all are for the very same reasons.
I think Tampa Bay would also love to have a baseball team...they don't have one right now, St. Pete has a baseball team. I think we have plenty of evidence to inference they'd (Tampa Bay) also support a baseball team if that team was made accessible. I think the arguments that Tampa won't go to games is largely based on a horrible stadium in the worst location possible for that stadium and I haven't seen anything to suggest it's just the people of Tampa Bay who don't like baseball. I'm not against moving the team, I'm against blaming Tampa Bay's fans for their lack of in-game support. Wherever the Rays are, they deserve to be accessible and in an MLB baseball stadium that isn't putrid. When you take the 30th best MLB ballpark, which is in no way a destination for people, and make every game a destination to get to through bad traffic, bad parking, tolls, etc...it should not be a shock people would rather watch on their couch.
I think in the end, Tampa Bay is as good of a home for the Rays as Nashville, or Montreal, or Vegas would be if the team was in Tampa Bay and made accessible to people. It is 47th in total population, it has one of the biggest positive delta changes in population growth from the last 2 cenuses...it should be a prime spot to support an MLB team. I'm not married to them staying in Tampa...they just need to be accessible wherever they are. Whatever pulls them out of this "woe is me, I'm so poor" spot (they have a reason due to their impossibly small attendance numbers) and forces them to spend and be an MLB market is good for me. If that's Tampa, or Montreal or whatever...fine. But we cannot discount just how horrible the planning was for this organization from the get go- the planning was at an amateur-hour level and is likely the prime culprit for just how bad this has gotten. If they had been placed in an MLB caliber stadium with MLB caliber accessibility, in Tampa, I expect the 2021 Tampa Bay Rays would be drawing just fine 20+ years into this thing.
That's their fault though. They've had over 20 years to build a successful franchise that draws fans and they've failed miserably. Staying in that crappy stadium all this time with ugly uniforms is their fault. The branding has been horrendous. Hard to get excited about fake grass inside a giant dark and ugly warehouse.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs
They have a lease on the stadium. They can't just break it whenever they want. This was set into motion 20 years ago. They have had no real recourse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratos
Idiots planned this thing for quick MLB approval. We can debate that all we want, but blaming the city of Tampa or calling it unviable for MLB attendance ignores the root cause and passes the buck. Tampa, I fully believe, would support an MLB team if given the opportunity. They weren't.
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No, they weren’t going to contend just by bringing back the same group.Quote:
Originally Posted by ILMindState
I think the question is if they would have contended if they spent back to the lux tax line. In that case I think they could have contended, but once the decision was made to not replace the lost salaries and to drop additional payroll the season was basically over at that point.
I don't blame the fans or people of Tampa, i'm sure they'd probably support a good franchise. Whoever signed off on these things is the cause, the city or the team or both, whomever was involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs
Maybe they could have contended this year if they dropped some more money in FA, but i think they went a good route anyways, I think the org is in a good position. They sold high on Darvish, they got decent prospects back for Rizzo/Baez/Bryant, got talent for Kimbrel. The blowup came a year or 2 too late, but COVID and other things also happened, it's a shame we had to waste a couple of years on a clearly inadequate formula. I'd rather have a solid future than whimpering into the playoffs on 90 wins and not getting anything but possibly compensation picks for some of those guys. I think this season went almost ideal.Quote:
Originally Posted by CP_414
Hard disagree with most of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratos
This season was trash. Making the playoffs is always better than winning 71 games. They didn’t choose this route for baseball reasons, they chose it for financial reasons. They absolutely should not have done this 2 years ago.
The Cubs don’t have to choose between tanking and not having a solid future.
I still so ****ing hate this train of thought.There were great players on this team. The Cubs easily could have contended the last 3 years by just spending money to fix the glaring flaws. Even on short term deals. Instead they only signed minor league contracts. The team wasn't broken. The good players just got more expensive and ownership cheaped out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratos
For sureQuote:
Originally Posted by CP_414
The idea that the Chicago Cubs need to suck to retool the team is so ****ing stupid. You know what's better then having a top 7 pick in the draft when you're trying rebuild? Nabbing some prospects by taking on a bad contract. Signing good players to 1-2 year deals and trading them for prospects if you suck at the deadline. Top 3 market. Take advantage of that. The Cubs should absolutely never have to tank. It's ****ing silly.
Yep. The Dodgers last top 10 pick was Kershaw in 2006. The Cardinals last top 10 pick was JD Drew in 1998. The Yankees last top 10 pick was Jeter in 1992. 2022 will be the Cubs 6th top 10 pick in the last 12 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofnr
Since the cubs decided to lose on purpose again, I’m glad they got a high draft pick. They should be able to draft a great prospect at 7, but losing on purpose is not the only way to build a winner.
The Chicago Cubs might be evaluated by Forbes as the 4th most valuable team, but that doesn't mean that the ownership group is the 4th richest. Joe Ricketts is #371 on the Forbes list...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofnr
If the answer is simply to spend money, and admittedly that's never a bad option, the Cubs still wouldn't be the best. Just based on the richest majority owners, the Rickett's are only seventh. Some of these other majority owners also have extremely wealthy minority owners as well. While the Ricketts can generate a ton of income from the Club that can then be reinvested into the organization (an ability a lot of other teams lack), let's stop pretending like they're the Dodgers. When it comes to spending, some if it has to be a willingness to spend, and then there's the ability to spend.
You are saying the Ricketts can’t spend more on players because the family is only worth over $5 billion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusader
It doesn’t matter what the owners personal net worth is. None of these owners are pulling from their bank accounts to sign players. They sign players using team revenues. The Cubs have a top 4 revenue in mlb every season and a top 4 payroll rarely. It’s about a willingness to reinvest revenues onto the field vs putting those revenues in other investments that financially benefit the owners more than signing good players financially benefits the owners.
I’m saying if being competitive is as simple as flexing their wallets, then we’re not the biggest bully on the block. Honestly, I’m not sure if the Cubs ownership would even be in the top 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by CP_414
If the answer is just to spend, it’s not our organization that would be winning.
Again, the owners net worth doesn’t matter. They aren’t spending their own cash or selling stock to sign starting pitchers. It doesn’t matter that they are worth $5 billion and it doesn’t matter where that ranks among owners. People are so happy to point out that it isn’t liquid wealth when fans complain about them being worth so much money and not spending on payroll. It’s also not liquid wealth for the other owners and they aren’t signing players using personal cash. These multi-billion dollar businesses bring in revenue. Then owners decide how much of that revenue should go back into their product each year, how much of that revenue should go into investments/property/etc, and how much should go to themselves. The Cubs choose to put a below average percentage of that revenue back onto the field compared to other owners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusader
Nobody is asking them to outspend the Dodgers every year. They should spend in line with their revenues. They don’t do that.
Nobody is even saying that spending is the only thing they need to do to be competitive, but it’s the advantage they have as a top 5 revenue club. The other top 5 revenue clubs don’t lose on purpose over a third of the time. That’s a choice that the Cubs keep making.