NBA Playoffs Series Thread (1) Sixers vs (5) Hawks Atlanta wins 4-3

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Originally Posted by NBA all the way

Wait, what would the deal for Gary Harris, Ross, and Bamba look like?

I'm not in love with it without context but I do believe a 3 for 1 like that is what the 76ers should be seeking.

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I'm thinking similar with Ben to OKC or maybe Houston and lesser picks going to Orlando with those three coming back. Maybe Sixers can flip Ross and Bamba; or Thybulle and picks for a wing.

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Originally Posted by warfelg

Well I was gonna make that point when I got home. If there was a team that wants to build around Simmons and only had assets, you need to get the players and picks rerouted to a 3rd team to bring back a win now player from a team ready to rebuild.

I just don't know who that is. Maybe OKC falls lower than anticipated in the draft, and you send Ben to them.

Maybe a modification on an earlier option:
OKC In - Simmons, Hill, 2021 Sixers 1st
Philly In - Lu Dort, Kyle Lowry, Pascal Siakam
Toronto In - Matisse Thybulle, 2021 Houston first via OKC (5), 2022 Sixers swap option, 2023 Sixers 1st, 2024 Sixers Swap, 2022 Phoenix 1st via OKC

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Why in Gods name would we trade Siakim for Thybulle and picks? Go kick your GM in the nuts for passing on Lowry and a title in the first place to protect Thybulle.

I want Siakim traded as much as the next guy but not for crap, he can net us an all star type talent in a package.

Unless we're getting the first or 2nd overall pick too so we can draft Mobley, hell no.

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Originally Posted by warfelg

His value is far more polarizing than its made out to be on here. As I alluded to, he is still only 25, you know you have time with him on his contract. Yes there will be selling low from our end, but it's not that low (to the suggestion of just Beasley or Walker) to the point we will be taking a risk player for a star (yes despite the postseason he's still a star).

Like we agree on, there's something in Philly when it comes to development that is horribly wrong right now. So while a team is buying low, I'm willing to easily bet they're going to bank on: Turn him into a 60-65% FT shooter, space around him, let him play at pace. Maybe they internally talk about getting in his ear about shooting right handed.

And two reasons I believe that:
#1 - Look at this HS highlights. That guy is there that can shoot, can play well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnjzoTBNwGo

#2 - Look at the HS highlights again. Notice anything? Every pass, his drive tendency, his layup hand, his dunk hand.....it's all right handed. He's a righty. So the mental is in the fact his mechanics shooting lefty is bad, so he thinks about it. And when you are too mechanical, the same is true in golf as basketball, you are **** with the shot. So he's so mentally in a rabbit hole of mad mechanics, mental block, that he's afraid to do all those things that make him special. If he can shoot right handed, his natural hand (seriously look it up, he's a righty), it will be less focus on mechanics and more on feel.

This is the other stuff that GM's pay close attention to, and I have heard rumor that's what's actually keeping his value up; the belief that Philly never built around him, more around Joel and Ben was there, and he's shooting with the wrong hand.

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He def still has value, but like you said you guys are selling low, but then again if he performed very well then you all wouldn’t be trading him at all.

But he still has value. He would actually be a perfect fit on the Raptors. He’s kind of exactly what we need, now that it’s pretty much a forgone conclusion that Lowry is gone. We need a pass first floor general with size who can defend and would compliment our very undersized shooting guard in FVV. He also is the perfect age with our core: FVV/Siakam are 27 and OG is 23. All three guys benefit with playing with pace and getting up and down the court. And our defence with Simmons/OG/Siakam would be pretty dam good.

this is just an example of a team he would fit really well on. But also an example of how he still has value because I don’t think we have the pieces to attain him with out gutting the team.

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Originally Posted by warfelg

High pick and roll with Lillard the way Golden State uses Dray with Curry. If they trap Lillard, Simmons has a 4 on 3 option for passing or going to the rack.

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I'm actually kinda curious too, do you think he can play C? Can he handle the banging all game and fight for rebounds with the C's across the league generally?

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

I'm actually kinda curious too, do you think he can play C? Can he handle the banging all game and fight for rebounds with the C's across the league generally?

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Good question. The other area I think he can influence the game is as a rim runner/lob threat. Does Simmons sprint the floor when he doesn’t have the ball. He’s great at igniting transition with the dribble but hurts his team initiating offense outside of transition. I think he can help a team just by sprinting the floor. If he plays 5 he is going to be faster then other 5 men and be a lob threat. If teams regularly have pinch in or tag him in transition bc he is beating his guy down floor it will open up things for the wings. This gets back to his off ball game. If he not going to be a PG he needs to influence the game off ball. So on Portland he can grab and go to start the break, defend the 5, be a roll man with Lillard, and a rim runner off ball in transition.


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Originally Posted by mngopher35

I'm actually kinda curious too, do you think he can play C? Can he handle the banging all game and fight for rebounds with the C's across the league generally?

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No. He's a PF. I think they would need to go after a 5 like Brook Lopez.

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Originally Posted by ewing

Good question. The other area I think he can influence the game is as a rim runner/lob threat. Does Simmons sprint the floor when he doesn’t have the ball. He’s great at igniting transition with the dribble but hurts his team initiating offense outside of transition. I think he can help a team just by sprinting the floor. If he plays 5 he is going to be faster then other 5 men and be a lob threat. If teams regularly have pinch in or tag him in transition bc he is beating his guy down floor it will open up things for the wings. This gets back to his off ball game. If he not going to be a PG he needs to influence the game off ball. So on Portland he can grab and go to start the break, defend the 5, be a roll man with Lillard, and a rim runner off ball in transition.


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Ya I saw your other post and was playing off it cause it intrigued me. I agree with a lot of what you are saying offensively and how he can use his natural abilities as an advantage in that way. He has the ability to finish like capela as you said while also have a bit more playmaking (he can hit open shooters/dribble attack to rim if dame has to dump off due to doubles from screen). Basically everything for him is set up naturally by hustle/taking advantage or putting him in east positions to succeed off dame.

He seems aware and good enough defensively to me to figure out the anchor aspect a bit more. If he can grind at C at fight for rebounds etc. every game then that’s really intriguing from Portland’s view.


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Originally Posted by warfelg

No. He's a PF. I think they would need to go after a 5 like Brook Lopez.

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My feel was he might not be given what I have seen. It’s an interesting idea if he were able to pull off playing the 5 though.

I think as you note the need to compliment with spacing still from c position like a lopez. You can still do a lot of what Ewing was getting at still and I added to in having ben be a finisher who can play make a bit in certain areas (attacking in transition then if not in half court if teams double dame leaving him open off action).


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Originally Posted by warfelg

No. He's a PF. I think they would need to go after a 5 like Brook Lopez.

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this makes me roll my eyes. Why can’t he play 5? I definitely think he is best suited as a 5. It give him the speed mismatch on O, makes him the roller in spread PNR with play making wings to kick to, puts him in the middle of PnR defense, and allows him to be in a great position to grab and go in boards to ignite fast breaks. If Ben wants to be special he has to at least play some 5 and probably should be FT imo.


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Originally Posted by mngopher35

My feel was he might not be given what I have seen. It’s an interesting idea if he were able to pull off playing the 5 though.

I think as you note the need to compliment with spacing still from c position like a lopez. You can still do a lot of what Ewing was getting at still and I added to in having ben be a finisher who can play make a bit in certain areas (attacking in transition then if not in half court if teams double dame leaving him open off action).


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It seems like there is a long list of dos and donts needed from this max players teammates to make him fit. I guess you need a 3 point shooting 5 that stays out of the post area now. If I’m a GM I want no part of this. He should be able to play either and I shouldn’t need to get a stretch 5 to accommodate him. I think he should be a 5


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Originally Posted by ewing

It seems like there is a long list of dos and donts needed from this max players teammates to make him fit. I think he should be a 5 and I don’t know if he is good enough to force teams to play him at the 4 even though he should be a 5 like AD


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I mean I would give it a shot where he ends up next, I definitely think ad is.

I am not saying that it’s not a him issue type thing, just that my feeling watching him is he may struggle to grind or often get out worked throughout a game against some 5s. Especially over a long season. I agree with you on that type of play needing to be what he does. At 5 it becomes even more of an advantage IF the team isn’t hurt in other areas like on the boards.


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Originally Posted by ewing

this makes me roll my eyes. Why can’t he play 5? I definitely think he is best suited as a 5. It give him the speed mismatch on O, makes him the roller in spread PNR with play making wings to kick to, puts him in the middle of PnR defense, and allows him to be in a great position to grab and go in boards to ignite fast breaks. If Ben wants to be special he has to at least play some 5 and probably should be FT imo.


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He can but it won't be the best use of him. Maybe for small stretches in games, but full time not likely. He's more of a on man defender than a help defender and rim protector. So asking him to stay the middle when teams drive on him isn't going to work as well as you think.

The hope in Portland would be Zach Collins is healthy. He's a perfect 5 fit next to Simmons.

Congrats to Atlanta. They are the better team in the series. Winning 3 games on the road is impressive.

Its been 24 hours and I still don't know where to begin. ts very disappointing. I know how JAZZNC feels.