NBA Playoffs Series Thread (1) Sixers vs (5) Hawks Atlanta wins 4-3

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06-21-2021, 04:49 PM
ewing

Quote:

Originally Posted by warfelg

To whoever called Simmons a bust:

If he changes hands and opens his eyes he could still be great

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06-21-2021, 04:55 PM
warfelg

Via Windhorst:

Ben Simmons is doubtful to play for Australia in Tokyo Olympics, sources said. Will spend offseason working on skill development. Aussies scheduled to begin training this week in L.A.

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06-21-2021, 04:59 PM
warfelg

https://twitter.com/blackdragonroll/...269410823?s=21

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06-21-2021, 05:04 PM
JAZZNC

Quote:

Originally Posted by warfelg

His value is far more polarizing than its made out to be on here. As I alluded to, he is still only 25, you know you have time with him on his contract. Yes there will be selling low from our end, but it's not that low (to the suggestion of just Beasley or Walker) to the point we will be taking a risk player for a star (yes despite the postseason he's still a star).

Like we agree on, there's something in Philly when it comes to development that is horribly wrong right now. So while a team is buying low, I'm willing to easily bet they're going to bank on: Turn him into a 60-65% FT shooter, space around him, let him play at pace. Maybe they internally talk about getting in his ear about shooting right handed.

And two reasons I believe that:
#1 - Look at this HS highlights. That guy is there that can shoot, can play well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnjzoTBNwGo

#2 - Look at the HS highlights again. Notice anything? Every pass, his drive tendency, his layup hand, his dunk hand.....it's all right handed. He's a righty. So the mental is in the fact his mechanics shooting lefty is bad, so he thinks about it. And when you are too mechanical, the same is true in golf as basketball, you are **** with the shot. So he's so mentally in a rabbit hole of mad mechanics, mental block, that he's afraid to do all those things that make him special. If he can shoot right handed, his natural hand (seriously look it up, he's a righty), it will be less focus on mechanics and more on feel.

This is the other stuff that GM's pay close attention to, and I have heard rumor that's what's actually keeping his value up; the belief that Philly never built around him, more around Joel and Ben was there, and he's shooting with the wrong hand.

Man, if you're a 25yr old pro basketball player you can't be talking about switching the hand you shoot with. That's just nonsense. He'd be learning to shoot all over again and that's not a recipe for success either. I think he kinda is what he is at this point as a shooter.
06-21-2021, 05:06 PM
NBA all the way

Quote:

Originally Posted by mngopher35

I think McCollum makes sense for both but value wise that’s pretty low imo. 30 year old with no all star games.

It’s better than some bad offers thrown out but still that’s a decent drop off.

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CJ could probably easily be an All-Star in the East.

Idk if just swapping in CJ for Ben is good enough though. 76ers needs another wing with a similar skill set but maybe a smidge better defender.
06-21-2021, 05:08 PM
ohreally

Quote:

Originally Posted by warfelg

Dude it’s mental. How else can it be so bad it’s in your head but not be mental.

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It’s Embiid.

Face it, Simmons is taking all the flak, and well deserved, but the entire team, with the slight exception of Curry, cratered under pressure. When the Nets played their final matchup of the season against the 6ers, with Harden and a total of nine guys on the back end of an unexpected back-to-back and nearly came back to win a game the 6ers were pumped for, their fragility as a team was obvious and I said they were going to choke.

Not taking anything away from the Hawks, but the 6ers lost this series.
06-21-2021, 05:10 PM
warfelg

Quote:

Originally Posted by NBA all the way

CJ could probably easily be an All-Star in the East.

Idk if just swapping in CJ for Ben is good enough though. 76ers needs another wing with a similar skill set but maybe a smidge better defender.

The full one suggestion coming up is CJ/RoCo for Ben/Hill.

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06-21-2021, 05:14 PM
NBA all the way

Quote:

Originally Posted by warfelg

The full one suggestion coming up is CJ/RoCo for Ben/Hill.

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That could work. I think a Curry/CJ back court gets killed defensively, so maybe find a 2 or hope Thyb or Maxey make that next step and have Curry off the bench as that super sub 6th man, a role he's proved to thrive in.

That wouldn't be too bad of a shake up chemistry wise either. Tobi and RoCo easily fit today's prototypical forwards so whoever was 3 or 4 is kinda irrelevant.
06-21-2021, 05:23 PM
warfelg

Quote:

Originally Posted by NBA all the way

That could work. I think a Curry/CJ back court gets killed defensively, so maybe find a 2 or hope Thyb or Maxey make that next step and have Curry off the bench as that super sub 6th man, a role he's proved to thrive in.

That wouldn't be too bad of a shake up chemistry wise either. Tobi and RoCo easily fit today's prototypical forwards so whoever was 3 or 4 is kinda irrelevant.

Definitely.

Something I randomly thought of. So many young guys, especially in big hype situations, get offers upon offers from former players to help with their game. Even if they don’t take it the offer is there. I can’t recall anyone offering help Simmons. All anyone is saying is he need to be traded. Not saying it does anything, but it is strange he doesn’t have anyone in his corner.

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06-21-2021, 05:27 PM
beasted86

Quote:

Originally Posted by koldjerky

I know it keeps getting brought up that Simmons and Embiid grade out positively when on the floor together, but ultimately, how much better could Simmons be if he was on an up and down the court team vs needing to play half court because of embiid?

I wonder if it is Embiid holding Simmons back but I do think Embiid is the guy (injuries be damned) you gamble on to build around.

You can fit more players around Embiid than you can Simmons. I could see Simmons thrive on a team more catered to his style. I could even see him start putting more into his offense.

Transition teams don't win championships.

At some point if you can't execute in the half court or at the free throw line, you should be on the bench. Simmons even on another team with athletic shooters who can finish on the break, cut, and end find the open points for catch and shoot....will still need to execute in the half court.

With that in mind nobody can trade for Simmons expecting him to be one of their two best players. He's a more athletic Draymond. Certainly critical to a teams success but also clearly shouldn't be making the max, nor one of the two best players
06-21-2021, 05:30 PM
mngopher35

Quote:

Originally Posted by warfelg

CJ not being an all star takes a deeper look than “he’s not good enough”. Look at the last 5 years and ask yourself who else in the west was worthy and left off.

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My point is he isn't some clear/perennial all star type that would have been expected a year or two back if a move was made, no all star games signals that at the very least. Most years he isn't even top 10 in voting for West backcourt guys usually overall. I am not saying he isn't talented enough to get in on the right season just that this type of player at age 30 is a drop off. You are getting the prime/peak version basically though for a short window at least.

He isn't bad by any means but the value on Simmons has dropped significantly if that is where it lands. We are talking a 25 year old 3 time all star and an All NBA team and 2nd in DPOY this year. His trade value doesn't reflect that at all anymore.
06-21-2021, 05:33 PM
mngopher35

Quote:

Originally Posted by NBA all the way

CJ could probably easily be an All-Star in the East.

Idk if just swapping in CJ for Ben is good enough though. 76ers needs another wing with a similar skill set but maybe a smidge better defender.

As I was noting my point is that he isn't some clear selection (shown by never even making it). Simmons made an All NBA team and was 2nd in DPOY voting this year while being 5 years younger. I think it actually makes sense for both as I was noting but this would be a pretty decent drop value wise from how he was seen a year or two ago.
06-21-2021, 05:54 PM
warfelg

Quote:

Originally Posted by mngopher35

My point is he isn't some clear/perennial all star type that would have been expected a year or two back if a move was made, no all star games signals that at the very least. Most years he isn't even top 10 in voting for West backcourt guys usually overall. I am not saying he isn't talented enough to get in on the right season just that this type of player at age 30 is a drop off. You are getting the prime/peak version basically though for a short window at least.

He isn't bad by any means but the value on Simmons has dropped significantly if that is where it lands. We are talking a 25 year old 3 time all star and an All NBA team and 2nd in DPOY this year. His trade value doesn't reflect that at all anymore.

1 - The concepts of windows need to be thrown out the door. If you got a team that a move can get you over the hump then make it.

2 - CJ is regularly on the list of All-Star snubs. Using a popularity contest as a measuring stick of who’s good is a bad one.

3 - Value doesn’t come from accomplishments alone. Like the Wolves will trade a guard and they aren’t gonna get full value because teams know they have to ditch one.

4 - Again on value. Saying Ben’s value is down, then listing that stuff as to why he should be worth more sets up any trade to be a lose.

5 - Last one on value. That trade is going to be one where the players being acquired are more valuable to the teams getting the player than the teams giving up the player.

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06-21-2021, 06:07 PM
warfelg

Another somewhat interesting thing I heard a lot of experts and insiders say today is just how difficult a Simmons trade is.

One, we aren’t a rebuilding team so deals with young guys and picks doesn’t work. We need win now players coming back.

Two, unless you go to Portland or Chicago for CJ or LaVine; you got to involve a third team which complicates salary and picks with all the protections.

Three, if you do this you almost HAVE to work with Klutch sports to get him somewhere he wants to go. Given Rich Paul’s expanding power in the league you want to get that.

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06-21-2021, 06:10 PM
R. Johnson#3

There’s 3 things that are certain in life. Death, taxes and Philly getting bumped in the 2nd round.

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