NBA Playoffs Series Thread (1) Sixers vs (5) Hawks Atlanta wins 4-3

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Originally Posted by smith&wesson

again the 12 minutes a game is likely an exaggeration...

But to your point about Towns being a flawed star, the difference is that he is playing in an era where offense heavily outweighs defense.

Towns is one of the better Cs in the league. There's only a handful of them. Jokic, Embiid, Vuc, Gobert, Towns is the short list of really good 5s in our league today so his value is going to be higher than a defensive point guard that cant shoot a lick, not even from the free throw line.

Now if were talking about the 80s, or 90s I would give Simmons a lot more credit because defense was valued a lot more back then. Centers weren't extending their range out to the 3 point line. So while Towns is not the greatest defender, in this era he is a higher valued commodity as an offensive weapon with a skillset that maybe only 2-3 other Cs in the league have.

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We definitely agree on that aspect and it is why I quoted him and said no thanks initially. Towns offense is more valuable, Simmons is like the compliment type to that type. Gobert would be a little closer to the idea but even so as you note Simmons not being a C and not being able to shoot is a bit more limiting making him more a compliment while providing great defense and good playmaking/attacking at times still.

The point was though that's still valuable overall with his impact even if those flaws limit this team a little more. Embiid dominates the paint so the spacing can be nicer at times for sure depending on situation. He still has a lot of value to bring overall despite the flaws during a game though even if he isn't a star in the same way.

We fully agree he isn't on the level of a Towns due to his limitations and offensive value. There aren't tons of 1st all team guys putting up 14/7 though either. He is a bit unique himself but not in as valuable of ways unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by warfelg

It's not a hanging my hat on thing to say. But Green playing means more defense with some offense, pushes Korkmaz back to the bench, takes the offense/defense interchange late in the game off the table, and puts our vocal defensive leader back on the court. Otherwise you have to choose streaky offense that can get hot with barely NBA level defense or passable offense with great defense. At least with Danny we get ok offense and above average defense.

Yes he's lost a step, but the reasons for moving on need to be put into context - LA was to have money, left Toronto because they didn't offer as much, and was moved to Toronto to make salaries work.

Mind you with Green the defense was:
Simmons - Trae
Green - Bogdanovic
Curry - Hill
Harris - Collins
Embiid - Capela

and it was working.

Without Green it is:
Simmons - Trae
Curry - Bogdanovic
Korkmaz - Huerter
Harris - Collins
Embiid - Capela

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Yeah fair enough. Green on Huerter is a lot better defensively and I get that losing Green is going to effect the rotation especially where depth and match ups are concerned. But I think the 6ers could have won this series with out him. I mean I value Thybulles defence alot more than Greens at this point. But I get it, Green still has that range where as Thybulle doesn't yet.

What would you like to see Doc try differently in game 6, or what do you think might work better.

Something I was thinking about was that we give Simmons grief for not even trying to shoot, but then we clown Giannis for taking 8 - 3 pointers... Its a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If Simmons took more shots from the mid range it could help open lanes for him to drive because then the defender would have to close up on him. I haven't watch him enough to know if he has a mid range touch but do you think that's something he could do more of to help himself out on that end.

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Originally Posted by smith&wesson

which is what I said. Im assuming that starter was exaggerating when saying 12 minutes, because that drastic. But I do think Doc needs to try something new, shake things up a bit. thats why I was clarifying it for ya

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Gotcha I just didn't see that post in between is what I was getting at.

I can definitely see getting a bit creative. I feel like they can start the game the same ways though haha that's been fine. They just gotta not blow big leads.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

We definitely agree on that aspect and it is why I quoted him and said no thanks initially. Towns offense is more valuable, Simmons is like the compliment type to that type. Gobert would be a little closer to the idea but even so as you note Simmons not being a C and not being able to shoot is a bit more limiting making him more a compliment while providing great defense and good playmaking/attacking at times still.

The point was though that's still valuable overall with his impact even if those flaws limit this team a little more. Embiid dominates the paint so the spacing can be nicer at times for sure depending on situation. He still has a lot of value to bring overall despite the flaws during a game though even if he isn't a star in the same way.

We fully agree he isn't on the level of a Towns due to his limitations and offensive value. There aren't tons of 1st all team guys putting up 14/7 though either. He is a bit unique himself but not in as valuable of ways unfortunately.

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oh he def still has value. 2nd most on the 6ers after Embiid. And thats the good new for 6ers fans because if and when they do decide to trade Simmons, Morey will get good value for him. I just thought Towns was a reach because I view towns as a top 5 player at his position.

and I do still think Ben is a unique talent. I just think he needs to work on his shot other wise it will become more, and more of a glaring weakness as he enters his prime. The older he gets, the higher the expectations become and also his salary increases every year too. When Simmons turns 26 he will be making 34 mill, when he turns 27 - 36 mill, 28 - 38 mill. If hes getting destroyed now for his lack of shooting, imagine in a couple years from now.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

Gotcha I just didn't see that post in between is what I was getting at.

I can definitely see getting a bit creative. I feel like they can start the game the same ways though haha that's been fine. They just gotta not blow big leads.

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I still think this series goes 7 games. Ben is due for an 18 & 10 game.

Fine guys, Ben at 14 minutes, final offer lol

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Originally Posted by smith&wesson

oh he def still has value. 2nd most on the 6ers after Embiid. And thats the good new for 6ers fans because if and when they do decide to trade Simmons, Morey will get good value for him. I just thought Towns was a reach because I view towns as a top 5 player at his position.

and I do still think Ben is a unique talent. I just think he needs to work on his shot other wise it will become more, and more of a glaring weakness as he enters his prime. The older he gets, the higher the expectations become and also his salary increases every year too. When Simmons turns 26 he will be making 34 mill, when he turns 27 - 36 mill, 28 - 38 mill. If hes getting destroyed now for his lack of shooting, imagine in a couple years from now.

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I don't see any real way we would give up Towns atm and it seems like a reach to me as well even if he were on the block due to value you mentioned. Russell would probably more of a starting point coming from our end, I like Simmons fit next to Towns actually but it is unlikely there would be a way to get anything done. We probably keep Russell/Towns/Edwards and try to add one more piece via trade but a little less ambitious.

Ya and that is tough, not a ton of guys that poor at shooting just turn it around. I think he has some legitimate flaws likely to always hold him back a bit but he can still be a very impactful/productive player still. You have to make sure it's the right fit to really maximize for sure and Embiid being so dominant in the paint may not be it.

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Originally Posted by smith&wesson

I still think this series goes 7 games. Ben is due for an 18 & 10 game.

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He's getting hit pretty hard right now, we will see how he handles it. I really don't know what to expect this coming game, I would have guessed 76ers in 6 coming in.

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Originally Posted by smith&wesson

Yeah fair enough. Green on Huerter is a lot better defensively and I get that losing Green is going to effect the rotation especially where depth and match ups are concerned. But I think the 6ers could have won this series with out him. I mean I value Thybulles defence alot more than Greens at this point. But I get it, Green still has that range where as Thybulle doesn't yet.

What would you like to see Doc try differently in game 6, or what do you think might work better.

Something I was thinking about was that we give Simmons grief for not even trying to shoot, but then we clown Giannis for taking 8 - 3 pointers... Its a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If Simmons took more shots from the mid range it could help open lanes for him to drive because then the defender would have to close up on him. I haven't watch him enough to know if he has a mid range touch but do you think that's something he could do more of to help himself out on that end.

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I’d like to see Thybulle start over Kork. Hill and Dwight for Embiid and Curry on first sub. Then Shake and Simmons for Thybulle and Harris. And cycle through like that.

Your last point is why I get so frustrated with the “Simmons can’t shoot” because we just accept that Giannis and Westbrook (Westbrick) and Green don’t shoot well at all; to the point of often shooting their teams out of games.

So it is quite exhausting to continually hear about Simmons flaws and issues as though he’s the only one with issues and the only one with issues that matter. Giannis was ****ing MVP and DPOY and refusing to take the toughest assignment and shooting his team out of games but people just go “oh well if he attacks and doesn’t shoot...”


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Originally Posted by smith&wesson

I still think this series goes 7 games. Ben is due for an 18 & 10 game.

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He’s typically responded. He did follow up his 1 point game and being shamed with 18-13-5


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Originally Posted by warfelg

He’s typically responded. He did follow up his 1 point game and being shamed with 18-13-5


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Game 5 of the first round when he played center he went 19-11-10.

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Originally Posted by NBA all the way

Fine guys, Ben at 14 minutes, final offer lol

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Lol you sly

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

He's getting hit pretty hard right now, we will see how he handles it. I really don't know what to expect this coming game, I would have guessed 76ers in 6 coming in.

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Yeah I was calling Philly in 6 as well. But I’ve flipped back and fourth a couple times since then. It’s been a tough series to call. I honestly thought the Hawks were still too young to make a deep run but they’ve surprised.

I think Philly come out aggressive in game 6. They’re gonna have to take the crowd out of the game early

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Originally Posted by warfelg

I’d like to see Thybulle start over Kork. Hill and Dwight for Embiid and Curry on first sub. Then Shake and Simmons for Thybulle and Harris. And cycle through like that.

Your last point is why I get so frustrated with the “Simmons can’t shoot” because we just accept that Giannis and Westbrook (Westbrick) and Green don’t shoot well at all; to the point of often shooting their teams out of games.

So it is quite exhausting to continually hear about Simmons flaws and issues as though he’s the only one with issues and the only one with issues that matter. Giannis was ****ing MVP and DPOY and refusing to take the toughest assignment and shooting his team out of games but people just go “oh well if he attacks and doesn’t shoot...”


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Thybulle and Simmons gives you guys solid perimeter d but kinda bad spacing but I think defending the perimeter and not letting these guys get off to a hot start in front of the home crowd will be important.

I know war, that’s why I’m trying to change the convo. I don’t wanna pile on that’s not my intention bro. Plus we’ve talked about this plenty so I won’t beat a dead horse. You and Kobe are my fav Philly posters to discuss with that’s why I always quote you guys. I just like talking about things in depth with guys that know their players and teams better than I do.

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Originally Posted by smith&wesson

Yeah I was calling Philly in 6 as well. But I’ve flipped back and fourth a couple times since then. It’s been a tough series to call. I honestly thought the Hawks were still too young to make a deep run but they’ve surprised.

I think Philly come out aggressive in game 6. They’re gonna have to take the crowd out of the game early

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Ya I thought the same of the Hawks, figured they had decent chance first round but this is a bit surprising.

Trae doing like 30/10 almost this postseason is very impressive, he has been able to step his game up despite being the focal point right away at such a young age (which often gets tougher come playoffs).