2021 Blue Jays Regular Season/Game Thread

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Originally Posted by ChongInc.

Yeah I literally acknowledged every point in your post in the one you quoted.

My question is “is it repeatable”? Because it has to be if we are going to roll out another team as strong as this years.
It might be. I don’t know but I look forward to finding out. I’m just stating what needs to happen in order for us to roll out a better team than last seasons, without paying Ray and semien.

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Not quite, but thats fine. Ive pointed out that Atkins has proven he can find mlb talent on the cheap. Even without Ray, Berrios, Manoah, Ryu and Matz probably lines up as one of the best, if not the best rotation in baseball and even without Semien, we have one of the, if not the best, line ups in the AL. And outside of the White Sox and Rays we are probably in the most desirable situations in the AL, with a ton of money to spend and a GM who seems to be able to find talent, especially on the cheap

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Originally Posted by mikepelfrey

You’re probably right but as a fan of the “other team’’ in NY it’s to be expected. And I do give them credit. I just look at the Jays being in the drivers seat with 13 games to go and playing 2 last place teams for 10 of those 13, as being particularly telling. The Yankees going 6-3 against the teams they had to beat was impressive, no doubt but going 7-6 to finish the season when you’re playing the last place Orioles and Twins for 10 of them just doesn’t cut it. To me, that makes it look like the Jays handed it to them

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I cannot disagree.

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Originally Posted by Kenny Powders

Not quite, but thats fine. Ive pointed out that Atkins has proven he can find mlb talent on the cheap. Even without Ray, Berrios, Manoah, Ryu and Matz probably lines up as one of the best, if not the best rotation in baseball and even without Semien, we have one of the, if not the best, line ups in the AL. And outside of the White Sox and Rays we are probably in the most desirable situations in the AL, with a ton of money to spend and a GM who seems to be able to find talent, especially on the cheap

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K…
I think we have vastly different opinions on what we can expect from Ryu, Matz + ?
I’m not expecting much from them, although matz having a decent (non cy)year wouldn’t be a major surprise.

If we have a ton of money to spend then this is a non issue because Atkins will just retain semien and Ray. Case closed. The team will be better from internal growth and we can all sleep through the offseason.

I’m definitely describing a scenario where we have a fixed cap around 160 mil as history leads me to believe thats how much Rogers is willing to spend annually. Maybe they bump it up who knows.

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Originally Posted by ChongInc.

K…
I think we have vastly different opinions on what we can expect from Ryu, Matz + ?
I’m not expecting much from them, although matz having a decent (non cy)year wouldn’t be a major surprise.

If we have a ton of money to spend then this is a non issue because Atkins will just retain semien and Ray. Case closed. The team will be better from internal growth and we can all sleep through the offseason.

I’m definitely describing a scenario where we have a fixed cap around 160 mil as history leads me to believe thats how much Rogers is willing to spend annually. Maybe they bump it up who knows.

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Matz had a really good second half this year. I'm not expecting him to have a Robbie Ray like year.

While it seems they have money to spend, I wouldn't be upset if they don't get into a bidding war over Ray. There's a a few red flags and if the price gets too high then I'm all for putting that money into different areas. Semien, I'm completely on board for re-signing.



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Originally Posted by Kenny Powders

Matz had a really good second half this year. I'm not expecting him to have a Robbie Ray like year.

While it seems they have money to spend, I wouldn't be upset if they don't get into a bidding war over Ray. There's a a few red flags and if the price gets too high then I'm all for putting that money into different areas. Semien, I'm completely on board for re-signing.



Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

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There will be no bidding war. He will resign here on a hometown discount. Book it.

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Originally Posted by ChongInc.

I cannot disagree.

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It's a really warped way of putting it. Because they went 5-2 against those last place teams, lol.

Orders of business for y'all to be competitive next year for the 2022 Season

- Re sign Ray and Semien
- Get rid of Ryu this off season and replace him with another ace type pitcher

- Also sign another pitcher too on top of it to strengthen rotation

- Sign another quality bat

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Originally Posted by mike_noodles

It's a really warped way of putting it. Because they went 5-2 against those last place teams, lol.

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Sept 17-19 - Jays take 2 of 3 from Twins
Sept 20-22 - Rays take 2 of 3 from Jays
Sept 23-26 - split series with Twins
Sept 28-30 - Yankees take 2 of 3 from Jays
Oct 1-3 - Jays sweep O's

4-3 against the Twins hurt.

I mean you can point blame to the Twins series', not winning the Yankees series, or any game during the season that the bullpen blew it. Our fate was in our hand the last two weeks of the season, just was a bad time for the bats to go quiet.

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Originally Posted by statquo

Sept 17-19 - Jays take 2 of 3 from Twins
Sept 20-22 - Rays take 2 of 3 from Jays
Sept 23-26 - split series with Twins
Sept 28-30 - Yankees take 2 of 3 from Jays
Oct 1-3 - Jays sweep O's

4-3 against the Twins hurt.

I mean you can point blame to the Twins series', not winning the Yankees series, or any game during the season that the bullpen blew it. Our fate was in our hand the last two weeks of the season, just was a bad time for the bats to go quiet.

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Right, but I just disagree with the spin being put on it that we went 7-6 vs last place teams down the stretch.

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Originally Posted by mike_noodles

There will be no bidding war. He will resign here on a hometown discount. Book it.

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Really? I expect the opposite. He's gonnna cash on given this will be his 1 last big contract. He'll be 37 by his next FA given he will easily get 6-7 years.

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Originally Posted by statquo

Sept 17-19 - Jays take 2 of 3 from Twins
Sept 20-22 - Rays take 2 of 3 from Jays
Sept 23-26 - split series with Twins
Sept 28-30 - Yankees take 2 of 3 from Jays
Oct 1-3 - Jays sweep O's

4-3 against the Twins hurt.

I mean you can point blame to the Twins series', not winning the Yankees series, or any game during the season that the bullpen blew it. Our fate was in our hand the last two weeks of the season, just was a bad time for the bats to go quiet.

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If y'all hadn't lost the 2 games in that 4 game set and y'all had swept the Twins, y'all would have faced the Red Sox in the Wild Card game and y'all probably would have hosted that game in Toronto at the Rogers Centre and who knows what would have happened there

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Originally Posted by Tg11

If y'all hadn't lost the 2 games in that 4 game set and y'all had swept the Twins, y'all would have faced the Red Sox in the Wild Card game and y'all probably would have hosted that game in Toronto at the Rogers Centre and who knows what would have happened there

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You must be a troll/second account for somebody.

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Originally Posted by LechWalesa

You must be a troll/second account for somebody.

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He’s all over this website in every forum. Might be getting paid to liven things up in here (I hope lol).

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Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

Really? I expect the opposite. He's gonnna cash on given this will be his 1 last big contract. He'll be 37 by his next FA given he will easily get 6-7 years.

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I think he wants to be here as long as the offer is reasonable.

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Originally Posted by mike_noodles

I think he wants to be here as long as the offer is reasonable.

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I suppose. Though I definitely expect someone to overpay so may be hard to keep him.

Poster From another site:

I've been thinking of putting a list like this together all season in the event the Jays missed the playoffs (which has regrettably come to pass, thanks largely to these games). These included the most obvious managing errors throughout that led directly to losses (or situations where I was particularly annoyed with him and think he could have done something different to change the outcome).

It does not include all the various in-game mistakes that may have contributed to losses (such as setting ridiculous lineups, not pinch hitting at appropriate times, or pinch hitting at inappropriate times).

List of Montoyo Games (20):

April 18 (2-0 loss to the Royals): TJ Zeuch was brought into a 7th inning scoreless game and predictably fell apart to lose. The Jays bullpen was kind of in tatters at this point (Merryweather had gone on his 5 month IL stint and Romano/Phelps had minor injuries), but they still had various better healthy options to be used including Chatwood (who was very good at this time), Dolis, and Payamps.

May 14 (5-1 loss to the Phillies): Trent Thornton was used in the 7th inning of a 1 run lead. This was the first time Thornton was used in high leverage for a loss but wouldn't be the last. After Thornton struggled, Montoyo then promptly brought Tim Mayza in who completely fell apart with multiple walks and hits. The bullpen had some serious injury issues by this point, but still, both Chatwood (who, again, was one of the best RPs in baseball from April to late May having only allowed 1 run on the season) and Romano were available to pitch in this game and neither did.

May 21 (9-7 loss to the Rays): The Jays were tied 5-5 in the bottom of the 11th when Espinal came to the plate with nobody out. Montoyo had him bunt. He failed. He then had him bunt with two strikes (which is insane). He failed again and stuck out. The Jays failed to score a run and lost the game in the 12th on a grand slam off some guy named Jeremy Beasley. I have no words for how dumb this Espinal sequence was, but the May version of me hadn't seen the Valera/Kirk pinch hit sequence yet.



May 23 (6-4 loss to the Rays): The Jays were up 6-4 entering the 9th. Our best RP at the time Chatwood struggled, allowing a few hits and walks, but still had the lead when he was pulled. Who was he pulled for? It wasn't Jordan Romano who pitched a scoreless game against the Rays 2 days before that. No, no, it was some minor leaguer named Travis Bergen. Bergen walked three runs in a row and that was the game. I have absolutely no idea what the thinking was here.

May 30 (6-5 loss to the Indians): The Jays were up 4-2 when Chatwood was brought into the game in the 6th inning of a DH game. Chatwood, who had begun a full-on collapse as a major league reliever by this point, looked horrific in the bottom of the 6th allowing multiple hard hit balls and a walk to blow the game (4-4). Anybody that watched that inning knew he had no business pitching any longer in the game and yet he came back out in the following inning (after the Jays had re-taken the lead 5-4). Chatwood promptly walked 4 batters in a row with Montoyo watching him do this without anyone warming. Castro was FINALLY brought in to replace Chatwood after the 4th walk, but the damage was done and Ramirez hit a sac fly to win the game.


June 8 (6-1 loss to the White Sox): The Jays were up 1-0 when Trent Thornton was brought in again to hold a lead in the 7th. It ended in complete disaster with him allowing 3 runs. The Jays didn't have a lot of relief depth at this point, but Castro (who had a sub 2 ERA at that point of the year), Mayza and Romano were available in this spot.

June 11 (6-5 loss to the Red Sox): The Jays were up 5-2 when Ross Stripling was pulled for Tyler Chatwood. Chatwood completely fell apart with two hit by pitches and a walk to make it 5-4. By this point in the season, Chatwood had been terrible for weeks and had no business pitching in a game with a lead (and especially coming in with multiple runners on when you needed a strike thrower). Now, unlike the game on May 30, he was then taken out after this display but it was too late. Carl Edwards Jr. (???) later blew the lead in the 8th inning and the Jays lost 6-5 in the 9th after Dolis allowed a walkoff single. Our best reliever by this point, Jordan Romano, was not used in this game despite being available. Absurd stuff.

June 14 (2-1 loss to the Red Sox): The Jays were tied in the bottom of the 9th when Montoyo went to Dolis instead of the team's best reliever Jordan Romano (who, having only pitched an inning on June 12 in a 5 run game, was available). Dolis allowed 3 hits including a walkoff hit to Devers for the loss.



June 16 (3-2 loss to the Yankees): This wasn't anything specifically Montoyo did wrong tactically, but the Jays were down 3-2 in the 9th when the Yankees threw a wild pitch/passed ball that got by Gary Sanchez with Teoscar Hernandez on 3rd. Hernandez would have scored the tying run except the umpire obliviously called it a foul ball on Gurriel. Gurriel barely disputed it and Montoyo didn't even argue the play whatsoever despite the game context. Gurriel hit into a line drive for an out after that and the Jays lost 3-2.

June 25 (6-5 loss to the Orioles): The Jays were up 5-1 heading into the 8th inning against the Orioles. Montoyo uses Chatwood who walks two and allows another hit to make it 5-2. He's seen bad Chatwood enough now to know that he needed to have a short leash so that was it for him. You'd think he would go to Romano here, right? You'd be wrong. Montoyo brings in Taylor Saucedo to pitch to LHB DJ Stewart. The problem with this move, however, is that the Orioles decide to pinch hit switch hitter Anthony Santander for Stewart. This would have been something most managers would be able to predict given the personnel the Orioles had on the bench (and who DJ Stewart is), but Montoyo did not. Santander singled home a run, which was followed by a Hays double to tie the game. Romano later enters the game in that same inning, but by then it was obviously too late. The Jays go on to lose in the 10th inning on 3 Trent Thornton walks (who, again, was pitching in a high leverage spot for reasons that were probably unclear to anyone else in the organization but Montoyo). Thornton is optioned back to AAA a little over a week later.

June 30 (9-7 loss to the Mariners): The Jays allow 3 runs in the 10th inning to lose. Patrick Murphy is the primary culprit in that inning, which is quite odd considering newly acquired Cimber was not used in this game and was available. I suppose it's not that odd if you know how Montoyo used Cimber this year, though. Mayza was also available as well.

July 25 (5-4 loss to the Mets): The Jays are up 3-1 in this game going into the 6th inning. Instead of allowing Stripling to pitch more than 5 innings and 79 pitches, he goes to Ryan Borucki. Borucki has only pitched in two blowout games since returning from injury, but is thrown into high leverage for the first time in months instead of Mayza, Cimber, Richards, or Romano. Due to the three batter rule, this means that Borucki must face lefty masher Pete Alonso. Borucki walks Conforto and then gives up a game tying HR to Alonso. At this point, Montoyo realizes that Borucki can't be trusted. Instead of bringing in any of his good relievers Mayza, Cimber, Richards, or Romano (or even Dolis who was on a good scoreless streak during this stretch), he chooses Jacob Barnes to enter in the tie game. Barnes gives up 2 runs on 2 hits and a walk. The Jays go on to lose 5-4 but not before using Mayza and Dolis in a deficit. Jacob Barnes is DFA'd the next day.

July 26 (5-4 loss to the Red Sox): The Jays were up 5-4 going into the bottom of the 8th inning. With Jordan Romano warming in the bullpen, Trevor Richards allows a go-ahead 2 run shot to Alex Verdugo. This is at least defensible given Richards' season to this point. What is less defensible is allowing Reese McGuire to hit in the top of the 9th down a run with Alejandro Kirk on the bench. McGuire grounds out. The Jays lose.

August 2 (5-2 loss to the Indians): The Jays are tied in the top of the 10th inning. Cimber, Soria, and Romano have been used in the 7th through 9th inning for three scoreless innings. Instead of allowing Romano to go a 2nd inning or using Mayza or Richards, Montoyo goes to Brad Hand. The same Brad Hand who had been completely terrible for the Nationals in the month leading up to his acquisition. Brad Hand allows a HR to Jose Ramirez and the Jays lose. This will not be the last time Hand is trusted for reasons that are unclear to anyone but Montoyo nor the last time that Hand blows a game.

August 13 (3-2 loss to the Mariners): The Jays are tied 2-2 heading into the bottom of the 9th with Cimber entering the game. Cimber walks a couple and allows an infield single off the tip of his glove to load the bases. Montoyo has decided he's seen enough. Despite needing a strike thrower or a strikeout pitcher, he brings in neither, deciding that this is the time that Brad Hand must be used again in high leverage after coming off multiple appearances in blowout games (following his blowup against Cleveland). Brad Hand walks Kelenic on 4 pitches. The Jays lose. Jordan Romano is not used.

August 18 (8-5 loss to the Nationals): The Jays lead 5-4 heading into the bottom of the 7th inning. Cimber starts the inning, allowing a single to Alcides Escobar. Instead of letting one of the best RPs on the team try to pitch out of it (or going to Richards who was also available), Montoyo gives the ball to Brad Hand. Hand walks Soto, allows a 3 run HR to Bell, and then gives up another HR to Carter Kieboom for good measure. The Jays lose 8-5, but not before using Richards in the following inning. Hand is DFA'd about a week later.

August 20 (4-1 loss to the Tigers): The Jays are tied 1-1 entering the bottom of the 9th. Left handed reliever Gregory Soto walks Hernandez on six pitches to lead off the 9th. Soto then walks Gurriel on six pitches to leave two on and no out with noted lefty masher Alejandro Kirk coming to the plate (.988 OPS vs. LHP in 2021). Sounds good for the Jays and Kirk, right? It wasn't. Montoyo decides this is the time he wants to make quite possibly the most inexplicable managing decision in team history. Instead of letting Kirk hit, he chooses to pinch hit Breyvic Valera (the worst hitter on the team) for Kirk. Valera isn't up there to hit, though, oh no. He's up there to bunt. He's up there to bunt against a LHP throwing 98 who just walked two batters in a row and had showed no sign of being able to hit the plate. I'll say that again. Montoyo has just pinch hit Breyvic Valera for Alejandro Kirk to bunt after two walks against a lefty in the 9th inning of a tie game. Valera, who is not a good bunter, fails to get the bunt down on the first two pitches. Montoyo, seeing this and being who he is, asks him to bunt for a third time with two strikes despite the Tigers 1B playing no more than 20 feet from the plate. By some chance, Valera makes contact but bunts it directly to the 1B who throws it to 3rd for the force out. Randal Grichuk (and yes, this is who we pinch hit Kirk with Valera to set up) immediately grounds into a double play to end the inning. The Jays lose in the 10th.


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August 27 (2-1 loss to the Tigers): Minor league corner outfielder Josh Palacios questionably starts the game in CF with Randal Grichuk (the only player on the roster at the time capable of playing CF) on the bench. The Jays go to the bottom of the 8th inning tied 1-1 before slap hitter Victor Reyes hits a line drive to CF. Palacios, who is still in the game, badly mistimes a dive for the ball that he has no chance on. The ball goes behind him all the way to the wall and Reyes scores on an inside-the-park HR. The Tigers win 2-1 on this mistake, but not before Grichuk pinch hits in the 9th inning.

September 10 (6-3 loss to the Orioles): The Jays are on a 8 game winning streak coming into this game and are tied 3-3 going into the 7th inning. Instead of going with Richards, Mayza or even Soria, Montoyo decides that high leverage is the place where Merryweather is going to make his major league return after being on the IL for 5 months (despite struggling for a number of outings in his rehab outings in the minors in the weeks preceding this). Merryweather allows a hit, a walk, and a 3 run HR as the Jays lose 6-3 to end the streak.

September 22 (7-1 loss to the Rays): The Jays start Lamb, McGuire and Dyson with 11 games left in the season and in the most tight and hotly contested playoff race imaginable. They probably lose this game anyway as Stripling pitched poorly, but seriously?