Updated mock for NFL Draft

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Originally Posted by hugepatsfan

Let's chill with the HOF mention for Pitts. He's great but that's a leap to even hypothetically speak on for any rookie.

And once again I don't see what the history of the TE position has to do with Pitts. Why do I care what OJ Howard did? Sure Gronk and Kelce went in the second - if there were redrafts they'd go top 5. Pitts should be evaluated on his own merits, not anyone else's.

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Because it speaks to value of the position that teams can unearth great TE's in later rounds. I think the things that should be valuated in Pitts that knock him as a TE is blocking and getting off the LOS. Yes he's a big dude but he doesn't play with great leverage and hasn't seen much press. No combine means not getting to see his blocking drills and running routes off a 3-point stance. Gonna be interesting when he's asked to help block, option block, gets chipped by DE's, OLB's, jammed by big nickle safeties. I think when you can get Freiermuth, Jordan, Long in rounds 2-3 who can still be mismatches but also can handle those inline TE duties and shown it in college, you get better value out of those picks.

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Originally Posted by warfelg

Because it speaks to value of the position that teams can unearth great TE's in later rounds. I think the things that should be valuated in Pitts that knock him as a TE is blocking and getting off the LOS. Yes he's a big dude but he doesn't play with great leverage and hasn't seen much press. No combine means not getting to see his blocking drills and running routes off a 3-point stance. Gonna be interesting when he's asked to help block, option block, gets chipped by DE's, OLB's, jammed by big nickle safeties. I think when you can get Freiermuth, Jordan, Long in rounds 2-3 who can still be mismatches but also can handle those inline TE duties and shown it in college, you get better value out of those picks.

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See this is different. You're breaking down specific things that warrant concern of if he can be truly special and dominant. All for that. But don't just give me "oMg HeS a TIGHT END how could you draft him?!?!?!" That's lazy and what I'm calling out.

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Originally Posted by Andrei00

Is this supposed to somehow relate to Pitts being a better prospect than Farley or Surtain?

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Based on position and talent Farley and Surtain are better prospects than Pitts. Every year we see someone getting over hyped and then over drafted. Pitts will be that guy this year. He will end up costing some GM their job in 2-3 years when he’s a bust. Unless that team is the Cowboys, because Jerry won’t fire himself.


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Originally Posted by hugepatsfan

See this is different. You're breaking down specific things that warrant concern of if he can be truly special and dominant. All for that. But don't just give me "oMg HeS a TIGHT END how could you draft him?!?!?!" That's lazy and what I'm calling out.

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I think the "he's a TE" is the short hand way of saying what I said.

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Originally Posted by Mr.B

Based on position and talent Farley and Surtain are better prospects than Pitts. Every year we see someone getting over hyped and then over drafted. Pitts will be that guy this year. He will end up costing some GM their job in 2-3 years when he’s a bust. Unless that team is the Cowboys, because Jerry won’t fire himself.


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This is what you're saying, and that's fine, I guess :shrug: But most people, position value aside, see Pitts as the better talent. That's just... a fact.

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Originally Posted by hugepatsfan

Matt Light was a terrific player for the Pats. Loooooong time starting LT. Assante Samuel was a terrific CB. Gronk had a better career than both of then. If given the choice to draft one of them, I'm taking Gronk 10 times out of 10.

You have to honestly evaluate the prospects. If you think Pitts is a truly elite and transcendent talent like pretty much everyone does, then that has to elevate him on your board even if others player more premium positions. Positional value does matter, but a special talent at TE is worth more than a really good LT or CB still.

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Engram and OJ Howard were supposed to be “transcendent talents” too. Howard even went to a very good team and still flamed out.

Also this isn’t a Gronk vs Asante Samuel. Of course you would take Gronk over those two. You have to say would you take Gronk over Trent Williams, Russel Okung, or Joe Haden? Those are the OL and CB that were drafted in the top 10 of the same draft as Gronk. Gronk was taken in the 2nd round by the way.

As great as Gronk is I’m definitely taking the LT over Gronk and likely still taking Haden over Gronk. Then I’m drafting a TE in the 2nd or 3rd round.

Also I doubt Pitts comes close to even sniffing the type of career Gronk has had.


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Originally Posted by warfelg

I think the "he's a TE" is the short hand way of saying what I said.

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Exactly


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Originally Posted by Andrei00

This is what you're saying, and that's fine, I guess :shrug: But most people, position value aside, see Pitts as the better talent. That's just... a fact.

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Position value is part of it. You HAVE to factor that in when considering taking a player in the top 10.


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Originally Posted by Mr.B

Position value is part of it. You HAVE to factor that in when considering taking a player in the top 10.


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Part of what? Of deciding who is the better talent overall? No, it's not. You can argue your decision anyway you want to, but you clearly said that if you're going BPA, that's not Pitts over Farley or Surtain, while the vast majority of people who evaluate college prospects for a living and whose work is publicly available (analysts, 'experts', whatever) disagree with you.

Well I hope my Patriots with our pick we trade up with 15 and move up in the Draft...by moving up we can draft our QB for the future and have him sit behind Cam. It is obvious Cam will be our starter but we draft whoever to basically be our backup and sit behind Cam. If we move up, I want my Patriots to take either Mac Jones or Trey Lance with the pick.

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Originally Posted by Andrei00

Part of what? Of deciding who is the better talent overall? No, it's not. You can argue your decision anyway you want to, but you clearly said that if you're going BPA, that's not Pitts over Farley or Surtain, while the vast majority of people who evaluate college prospects for a living and whose work is publicly available (analysts, 'experts', whatever) disagree with you.

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Nailed it.

Pitts has all of the measurables as a guy like Mike Evans.

If the Eagles were smart they would draft either Rashawn or Penei with their pick at 6 to shore up the defense

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Originally Posted by Andrei00

Part of what? Of deciding who is the better talent overall? No, it's not. You can argue your decision anyway you want to, but you clearly said that if you're going BPA, that's not Pitts over Farley or Surtain, while the vast majority of people who evaluate college prospects for a living and whose work is publicly available (analysts, 'experts', whatever) disagree with you.

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First off, this is all a matter of opinion as fas as who is the better prospect. Also you can argue your opinion all you want as well, doesn’t make you right. You can say you think Pitts is the better prospect and I disagree. In my opinion he’s highly overrated and will be in the Engram/Howard class within 3 seasons. TE is just not a position you draft in the top 10, I don’t care how talented he is. And yes, position matters whether you want to believe it or not. LT and CB are more important positions than TE and should be factored in. Especially a TE that can’t block and has trouble getting off the LOS.

And I could give a crap what guys like Mel Kiper say. Most of those “experts” are wrong when it comes to prospects and who’s getting drafted in the top 10.


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Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez

Nailed it.

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If by “nailed it” you mean absolutely wrong, then you’re correct.


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