The Cult of Trump

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Originally Posted by catman

All I am saying is that you complain about people being killed by police, while in the act of committing a crime. You call it police brutality and say the police are hunting minorities. Someone committing an armed robbery that fails to drop their weapon when instructed to is responsible for their own death.

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Please point to a case of police killing someone else in which I complained about it. Then point to how that person was a threat to the police officers' life. Then compare it to the Jan 6 terrorist attack.

The point is that there is a huge difference between a mob of terrorists trying to overthrow the government and:

- a man squirming while in handcuffs who then gets has head stuffed by an officers' knee
- a woman sleeping in her own home being shot by officers

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Originally Posted by catman

Am I? I'm saying that she was in the act of committing a crime. She was told to stop and was shot. It's on her.
Yes I have said that I feel Lt. Byrd overreacted, but the bottom line is that her death was her own responsibility.

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Did he overreact or was he in the wrong?

Am I being gaslight or haven’t you been arguing this entire time the officer should not have shot her?

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Originally Posted by catman

Am I? I'm saying that she was in the act of committing a crime. She was told to stop and was shot. It's on her.
Yes I have said that I feel Lt. Byrd overreacted, but the bottom line is that her death was her own responsibility.

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I'm curious as to why you went down the line of discussion about the officers leaving their posts. You started that almost immediately after her name was mentioned. Was it an attempt to shift blame or responsibility? Was it an attempt to shift the focus away from what we were discussing?

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Originally Posted by nyyfan555

Please point to a case of police killing someone else in which I complained about it. Then point to how that person was a threat to the police officers' life. Then compare it to the Jan 6 terrorist attack.

The point is that there is a huge difference between a mob of terrorists trying to overthrow the government and:

- a man squirming while in handcuffs who then gets has head stuffed by an officers' knee
- a woman sleeping in her own home being shot by officers

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You're right. No 2 situations are the same. You use poor examples, however. Those are clearly overreactions by the police and those responsible should be held accountable. I am talking about someone, in the process of committing a crime, refusing to follow police instructions (drop the gun and show me your hands, for instance) and being shot. They, like Ms Babbitt, are responsible for their own deaths.

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Originally Posted by valade16

Did he overreact or was he in the wrong?

Am I being gaslight or haven’t you been arguing this entire time the officer should not have shot her?

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I have said that he should have attempted non-lethal force initially. He did not do so. The bottom line, however, is that she was responsible for her own death.

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Originally Posted by nyyfan555

I'm curious as to why you went down the line of discussion about the officers leaving their posts. You started that almost immediately after her name was mentioned. Was it an attempt to shift blame or responsibility? Was it an attempt to shift the focus away from what we were discussing?

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Did you watch the video of the situation? It clearly shows 3 officers simply walking away from the doors. When they were out of the frame, Ms Babbitt attempted to breech the window and was shot. Shortly after that, several officers in riot gear appear in the picture.

Why is it our police must escalate to force or violence over literally anything though? How many instances of police shooting an unarmed person do we need? Or a person simply resisting arrest? Do you need to whip out your gun when someone says "no" every ****ing time?

The rules of engagement in our police force, on top of the total and utter lack of accountability of the police actions, is why nobody trusts them outside white Americans who have never experienced nor seen how police operate in urban areas.

There are just far different, and better, ways for our police to handle things.

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Originally Posted by catman

No, you have it wrong. I am talking about a person on the streets that is in the act of committing a crime and is shot and killed by police officers. Nowhere have I said that police should kill people sleeping in their own homes nor will I.
A person, in the act of committing a crime, that disobeys police officers instructions and is shot is responsible for their own death, just as Ms Babbitt was responsible for her own death.

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Yet you so vociferously demonize the Capitol Police anytime this topic is brought up. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by brett05

1) The shooting officer did not know her background
2) There was never a case
3) No one has shown that deadly force was necessary

The left complains all the time about police brutality until someone from the right agrees.

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Originally Posted by brett05

Another lie. Keep it coming

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Unless the topic is pizza toppings, I see no reason why anyone would try to seriously engage you in an adult conversation.

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Originally Posted by catman

All I am saying is that you complain about people being killed by police, while in the act of committing a crime. You call it police brutality and say the police are hunting minorities. Someone committing an armed robbery that fails to drop their weapon when instructed to is responsible for their own death.
I don't care about their skin color. If they refuse to follow instructions and are shot, it's on them.

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Yup, selling loose cigarettes and someone trying to attack members of congress. Someone already restrained on the ground and someone trying to attack members of congress. Someone asleep in their bed and someone trying to attack members of congress. Definitely no differences there!

More intellectually dishonest arguments.

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Originally Posted by catman

All I am saying is that you complain about people being killed by police, while in the act of committing a crime. You call it police brutality and say the police are hunting minorities. Someone committing an armed robbery that fails to drop their weapon when instructed to is responsible for their own death.
I don't care about their skin color. If they refuse to follow instructions and are shot, it's on them.

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Then why are you so intent on demonizing the Capitol Police for how they handled the Babbitt situation, you blabbering fool?

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Originally Posted by catman

You're right. No 2 situations are the same. You use poor examples, however. Those are clearly overreactions by the police and those responsible should be held accountable. I am talking about someone, in the process of committing a crime, refusing to follow police instructions (drop the gun and show me your hands, for instance) and being shot. They, like Ms Babbitt, are responsible for their own deaths.

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Great that you see that.

But when you say "As others have said, I hope you remember this when someone is killed by police officers in another situation", then you're clearly going down a path towards a "gotcha" game.

I hope you remember this conversation and can speak with a level of nuance and with context in mind when sharing your opinion.

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Originally Posted by catman

Did you watch the video of the situation? It clearly shows 3 officers simply walking away from the doors. When they were out of the frame, Ms Babbitt attempted to breech the window and was shot. Shortly after that, several officers in riot gear appear in the picture.

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No, liar, it clearly shows three officers moving to the side as other, more heavily armed and armored officers arrive. It's pretty clear that they were waiting for them to arrive before moving, and one even signals to the others that it's time to move right before they do.

Here's the video yet again: https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...video-capitol/

At about 1:30 into it, the cop in the middle clearly looks above and beyond the crowd, then grabs the officer next to him and says "They're ready to roll, come on."

That's why they moved.

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Originally Posted by catman

Did you watch the video of the situation? It clearly shows 3 officers simply walking away from the doors. When they were out of the frame, Ms Babbitt attempted to breech the window and was shot. Shortly after that, several officers in riot gear appear in the picture.

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This post just recaps what happened.

You didn't answer my question, which is why did you bring this up after her name was mentioned and after the topic of conversation was how people, including officers, were killed because of the attack?

I watched many videos of that day, including live footage as it happened. That has nothing to do with the fact that Babbitt and the other terrorists broke laws, caused property damage, threatened the lives of others, killed others, physically harmed others, and attempted to overthrow the government. As you agreed with earlier, she is responsible for her death that day.

The big question is, why did you bring up officers leaving their posts? Were you trying to shift focus? Trying to shift blame or responsibility? What was your motivation for bringing that up?

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye15

Why is it our police must escalate to force or violence over literally anything though? How many instances of police shooting an unarmed person do we need? Or a person simply resisting arrest? Do you need to whip out your gun when someone says "no" every ****ing time?

The rules of engagement in our police force, on top of the total and utter lack of accountability of the police actions, is why nobody trusts them outside white Americans who have never experienced nor seen how police operate in urban areas.

There are just far different, and better, ways for our police to handle things.

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Our police are militarized to the nth degree.