The Cult of Trump

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Originally Posted by nyyfan555

The cult just keeps on taking freedom away from people:

https://newrepublic.com/post/171025/...riage-equality

The Tennessee House of Representatives has passed a bill that would allow people to refuse to perform a marriage if they disagree with it.

According to the bill, which passed Monday night, “a person shall not be required to solemnize a marriage if the person has an objection to solemnizing the marriage based on the person’s conscience or religious beliefs.”

The bill, which now moves to the state Senate, is the latest in an onslaught of measures that the Tennessee legislature has passed attacking LGBTQ rights. This bill could also apply to couples where at least one partner is transgender, or to mixed race couples.

Our only hope is that a bunch of ministers and officials refuse to marry people whose conscience beliefs are republican.

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Most religious folks already do this. This just protects them from frivolous suits. If someone wants to get married in a faith arrangement, find a faith that approves of the couple's (trios, etc, ) actions.

Zero rights are infringed here. Actually the bill protects the freedom of religion. Of course, you would miss that.

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Originally Posted by brett05

Most religious folks already do this. This just protects them from frivolous suits. If someone wants to get married in a faith arrangement, find a faith that approves of the couple's (trios, etc, ) actions.

Zero rights are infringed here. Actually the bill protects the freedom of religion. Of course, you would miss that.

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Freedom of religion was never taken away by people who want to get married. Those ministers and officials always had the right to believe and practice what they wanted. And as you already stated, most religious people already do this. How many lawsuits against ministers have their been (specifically for not marrying a couple) that a bill was needed?

This bill is nothing more than another attempt to force christianity on everyone. This bill simply restricts people from getting married. Freedoms removed.

Try that yee-haw reasoning with your buddies.

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Originally Posted by nyyfan555

Freedom of religion was never taken away by people who want to get married. Those ministers and officials always had the right to believe and practice what they wanted. And as you already stated, most religious people already do this. How many lawsuits against ministers have their been (specifically for not marrying a couple) that a bill was needed?

This bill is nothing more than another attempt to force christianity on everyone. This bill simply restricts people from getting married. Freedoms removed.

Try that yee-haw reasoning with your buddies.

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Your ignorance would say this.

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Originally Posted by brett05

Most religious folks already do this. This just protects them from frivolous suits. If someone wants to get married in a faith arrangement, find a faith that approves of the couple's (trios, etc, ) actions.

Zero rights are infringed here. Actually the bill protects the freedom of religion. Of course, you would miss that.

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Brett doesn't understand what he's reading, which is no big surprise.

It has nothing to do with "finding a faith that approves of the couple's actions," because this bill also allows county clerks not to issue marriage licenses to people whose marriage they disagree with. That means, of course, same sex marriages, marriages that involve trans people, interfaith marriages, interracial marriages - any one of them can be denied a marriage license by a government official because of that person's personal, private objection to a marriage they are not a part of.

Tennessee law already said religious leaders don't have to officiate weddings they object to, so if this bill said that Brett is claiming then it would be redundant at best.

I would say I'd love to see Brett explain how allowing government officials to discriminate on the basis of sex, race, or religion isn't infringing on someone's rights, but Christ knows it would be tedious and pointless at best.

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Originally Posted by brett05

Most religious folks already do this. This just protects them from frivolous suits. If someone wants to get married in a faith arrangement, find a faith that approves of the couple's (trios, etc, ) actions.

Zero rights are infringed here. Actually the bill protects the freedom of religion. Of course, you would miss that.

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This is more likely to have the action of covering for someone who works for local government and refuses to issue a marriage license to someone they don't think should be getting married.

The Government issues marriage licenses, and the Government does not ascribe to any one religion and cannot reject an applicant on religious grounds. If you work for the Government you are an agent of the Government acting on behalf of the Government, not acting on behalf of yourself. As such, if your job is to issue marriage licenses on behalf of the Government, you shouldn't be able to refuse to issue a license on religious grounds.

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Originally Posted by valade16

The Government issues marriage licenses, and the Government does not ascribe to any one religion and cannot reject an applicant on religious grounds. If you work for the Government you are an agent of the Government acting on behalf of the Government, not acting on behalf of yourself. As such, if your job is to issue marriage licenses on behalf of the Government, you shouldn't be able to refuse to issue a license on religious grounds.

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I agree with this. I believe the person in question was removed from her office following her refusal to issue the marriage license.

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Originally Posted by valade16

The Government issues marriage licenses, and the Government does not ascribe to any one religion and cannot reject an applicant on religious grounds. If you work for the Government you are an agent of the Government acting on behalf of the Government, not acting on behalf of yourself. As such, if your job is to issue marriage licenses on behalf of the Government, you shouldn't be able to refuse to issue a license on religious grounds.

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Offer not valid in Tennessee, apparently.

I would say this should be an obvious one to get overturned up to and including SCOTUS, but with the current makeup of SCOTUS there's no telling with decisions like this one.

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Originally Posted by natepro

Offer not valid in Tennessee, apparently.

I would say this should be an obvious one to get overturned up to and including SCOTUS, but with the current makeup of SCOTUS there's no telling with decisions like this one.

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Agreed. Another consideration is: what if all of the employees in the county refuse to issue a marriage license on religious grounds? Are you just unable to get married in that county?

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Originally Posted by valade16

Agreed. Another consideration is: what if all of the employees in the county refuse to issue a marriage license on religious grounds? Are you just unable to get married in that county?

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Or racial ones.

And then we have to ask how long it will be before state and county officials are allowed to refuse services to single mothers because sex outside of marriage and/or divorce are against their religion. Or conscience! It doesn't even have to be on religious grounds. Thankfully it's the south, so the chances of a racist ending up in a position of power are super small.

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Originally Posted by valade16

Agreed. Another consideration is: what if all of the employees in the county refuse to issue a marriage license on religious grounds? Are you just unable to get married in that county?

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Originally Posted by natepro

Or racial ones.

And then we have to ask how long it will be before state and county officials are allowed to refuse services to single mothers because sex outside of marriage and/or divorce are against their religion. Or conscience! It doesn't even have to be on religious grounds. Thankfully it's the south, so the chances of a racist ending up in a position of power are super small.

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This is called reaching for the stars. For every one that won't, there's 100 that will.

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Originally Posted by natepro

Offer not valid in Tennessee, apparently.

I would say this should be an obvious one to get overturned up to and including SCOTUS, but with the current makeup of SCOTUS there's no telling with decisions like this one.

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The Bible Belt ain’t playing games on this. They are saying that you have to ascribe to their religion or GTFO.

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Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo

This is called reaching for the stars. For every one that won't, there's 100 that will.

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It's called equal protection under the law, and it's not equal protection if there is one that won't. Why should anyone be forced to go to a different county because of a government employee's personal beliefs?

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Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo

This is called reaching for the stars. For every one that won't, there's 100 that will.

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Maybe. If we allow it, it's only a matter of time before conservative politicians against it start stacking those positions with people who won't.

What happens if they don't?

And the language of the bill says "conscience beliefs" which is such a general term. This means couples can be discriminated against for any conscience belief of a county clerk.