The Cult of Trump

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zmaster52

How do they know that she was unarmed? She was breaking glass and attempting to climb through the window…if she gets through, what about the other 50-100 people that were right behind her? Isn’t it fair to assume that if she succeeded in getting through without being shot, that they would have start rushing through as well?

She was a casualty that happened and while we could argue whether or not shooting her was the right move, it definitely instilled some reality into the situation and as a result, a lot of that angry mob had quelled a bit.

Do you think one man could’ve possibly arrested her?

---

I don't believe anyone could have known at the time if she was armed or not. Post-mortem, it was discovered that she did not have any weapons.
As to the others coming through after she did, I will ask you why the officers assigned to guard the door abandoned their post as well. Can you give me an explanation for their actions? No attempt to breech the window was made prior to their leaving the area.
As to whether or not shooting her was the right move, I do not believe the officer was alone on the inside of the doors. If he was, that was poor planning on the part of those who assigned the guards to their areas.
The biggest question here is why did the 3 guards abandon their post?

Is your assertion that the officers leaving their posts led Babbitt and others to try and push through more forcefully?

That's a horrible take. The only one coercing her and others to do what they did was the former president and his supporters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by catman

Ms Babbitt was committing a crime when she was shot. She was not, however, a danger to the congressional delegation. As I showed you, there are multiple exits from the chambers and they were utilized to take the delegation to safety.
Ms Babbitt deserved to be arrested for her actions.
Edit:
Do you really want to rehash this? It did not end well for you before, as you cannot explain why the 3 officers guarding the door/windows abandoned their post without being relieved. No attempt to breech the windows was made prior to them leaving their post unguarded.

---

She was a danger. That's why she was shot.

People were still on the floor of the chamber when she was shot. This is a statement of fact.

It ended fine for me: I showed why the officers moved, I showed that the officers on the other side, including the one that shot her, were yelling warnings not to climb through the window, and you had your usual meltdown. I'm happy to watch you go into the same spiral again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by catman

I don't believe anyone could have known at the time if she was armed or not. Post-mortem, it was discovered that she did not have any weapons.
As to the others coming through after she did, I will ask you why the officers assigned to guard the door abandoned their post as well. Can you give me an explanation for their actions? No attempt to breech the window was made prior to their leaving the area.
As to whether or not shooting her was the right move, I do not believe the officer was alone on the inside of the doors. If he was, that was poor planning on the part of those who assigned the guards to their areas.
The biggest question here is why did the 3 guards abandon their post?

---

I’m the last person to defend officers of any kind so I’m not the person to ask but you raise the question of why the guards abandoned their post…and while I don’t have any knowledge of if or why they did that, wouldn’t that just make the lone officer’s actions more justifiable? He was abandoned by his squad, would that not constitute a ‘back against the wall, do what you gotta do’ kind of moment?

I’m pretty sure that I saw on twitter how some guards were basically giving tours around the place but I don’t know whether or not that’s true. Who knows.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nyyfan555

Is your assertion that the officers leaving their posts led Babbitt and others to try and push through more forcefully?

That's a horrible take. The only one coercing her and others to do what they did was the former president and his supporters.

---

Well if that’s the assertion then the lone guard who stood his ground should be lauded as a hero and not a murderer, because he’s the one that stayed and defended the capitol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by catman

I don't believe anyone could have known at the time if she was armed or not. Post-mortem, it was discovered that she did not have any weapons.
As to the others coming through after she did, I will ask you why the officers assigned to guard the door abandoned their post as well. Can you give me an explanation for their actions? No attempt to breech the window was made prior to their leaving the area.
As to whether or not shooting her was the right move, I do not believe the officer was alone on the inside of the doors. If he was, that was poor planning on the part of those who assigned the guards to their areas.
The biggest question here is why did the 3 guards abandon their post?

---

You've already been given an explanation.

The biggest question is why she climbed through the window when armed police with weapons trained on her were warning her not to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zmaster52

Well if that’s the assertion then the lone guard who stood his ground should be lauded as a hero and not a murderer, because he’s the one that stayed and defended the capitol.

---

He's not even talking about the people on the other side of the glass. He's talking about the people that were on the same side of the barrier as the insurrectionists that moved when more heavily armed police in riot gear were coming up on the group from behind.

See, catman here thinks that the three police that were there should've stayed, so if the ones coming up behind had to shoot at anyone they would also be in the line of fire. This is the level of reasoning you're working with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natepro

She was a danger. That's why she was shot.

People were still on the floor of the chamber when she was shot. This is a statement of fact.

It ended fine for me: I showed why the officers moved, I showed that the officers on the other side, including the one that shot her, were yelling warnings not to climb through the window, and you had your usual meltdown. I'm happy to watch you go into the same spiral again.

---

Nate, you did not show why the officers moved. They abandoned their post. They should be fired for that.
Can you prove beyond any doubt that the congressional delegation was on the floor of the chamber when she was shot? As I have said and shown, there were multiple other exits from the chambers. That exit was not necessary for them to have escaped.
As to me watching you throw your typical tantrum when you are wrong, I don't need the entertainment.
Just stop while you are behind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natepro

He's not even talking about the people on the other side of the glass. He's talking about the people that were on the same side of the barrier as the insurrectionists that moved when more heavily armed police in riot gear were coming up on the group from behind.

See, catman here thinks that the three police that were there should've stayed, so if the ones coming up behind had to shoot at anyone they would also be in the line of fire. This is the level of reasoning you're working with.

---

nate, can you prove that the officers left just to "get out of the line of fire"?
I didn't think so. More speculation on your part. They simply abandoned their post without being properly relieved and should be fired for doing so.
Nice try, but you should really stop before you dig yourself into a deeper hole. I shall not follow you down another of your patented "rabbit holes".
You need not rehash your speculations.
Edit:
No need for you to slide into "little natey" mode. I don't need the entertainment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by catman

Nate, you did not show why the officers moved. They abandoned their post. They should be fired for that.
Can you prove beyond any doubt that the congressional delegation was on the floor of the chamber when she was shot? As I have said and shown, there were multiple other exits from the chambers. That exit was not necessary for them to have escaped.
As to me watching you throw your typical tantrum when you are wrong, I don't need the entertainment.
Just stop while you are behind.

---

I love how eager you are to admit you have zero idea what you're talking about. :laugh2:

Read slowly, okay? This is at least the second time I've had to explain the basic, publicly-available facts of what happened that day to you, and you still can't seem to figure it out.

Quote:

---

“When I looked up, I had this realization that we were trapped,” said Rep. Jason Crow, D-Colo., a former Army Ranger who served three tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan. “They had evacuated the House floor first. And they forgot about us.”

---

Still with me? Congressman Jason Crow, from Colorado, telling an Associated Press about the realization that he and about a dozen other House members were trapped in the House chamber. What happens while they're trapped there?

Quote:

---

Vividly they remember the loud, hornetlike buzz of their gas masks. The explosive crack of tear gas in the hallways outside. The screams of officers telling them to stay down. The thunderous beating on the doors below. Glass shattering as the rioters punched through a window pane. The knobs rattling ominously on the locked doors just a few feet behind them.

And most indelibly, the loud clap of a gunshot, reverberating across the cavernous chamber.

“I’ve heard a lot of gunshots in my time, and it was very clear what that was,” Crow said. “I knew that things had severely escalated.”

The shot was fired by Officer Michael Byrd and killed Ashli Babbitt, a Trump supporter from California who was trying to crawl through the broken window of a door that leads to the House chamber. Both the Justice Department and Capitol Police investigated the shooting and declined to file charges.

While the gunshot dispersed some of the violent mob, the lawmakers ducking in the gallery believed the worst was just beginning.

“I think all of us, myself included, had images of a mass-shooting event,” said Rep. Peter Welch, D-Vt., who posted video updates on Twitter as the chaos unfolded. “It was terrifying in the moment.”

Rep. Mike Quigley, D-Ill., said he could tell the gunshot had come from the back of the chamber, in the Speaker’s Lobby just outside, and not from the main doors on the opposite side where they could see rioters trying to break through. In that moment he realized why they couldn’t leave — they were surrounded. “It was in stages that you realized the severity,” he said.

---

The main door was already barricaded with people trying to break through; the Speaker's Lobby, were Babbitt and the others were trying to break in, was at the back of the chamber. If the police there that day let them start pouring through that window, as they said they wanted to do, then there is nowhere for the people trapped in the chamber to go.

This is the situation you are still advocating for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by catman

You need not rehash your speculations.

---

The absolute irony of this coming from you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by catman

Nate, you will get this answer from me. Lt. Byrd, seeing that the guards abandoned their post on the outside of the doors, panicked and shot the perpetrator, as he did not see any other alternative to that tactic at that time.

---

Tell me more about "speculation" when you have gems like this.

Trapped? With many other exits available to them?
Nice try, but the quotes were simply for effect. I showed you the layout of the capitol building. There are at least 4 exits from the congressional chambers. If one was blocked by protestors, several others were available.
No need to rehash your speculations as to what happened. I saw the video, showing the 3 officers assigned to guard the door walking casually away. No urgency in their movements. Had they been "trying to get out of the line of fire", I would assume that they would be moving a whole lot quicker than they did.
No need to slide into "little natey" mode here. I don't need the entertainment.
Edit:
I have been consistent in my statements. The officers assigned to guard the door abandoned their post and should have been fired for doing so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by catman

Nate, you did not show why the officers moved. They abandoned their post. They should be fired for that.
Can you prove beyond any doubt that the congressional delegation was on the floor of the chamber when she was shot? As I have said and shown, there were multiple other exits from the chambers. That exit was not necessary for them to have escaped.
As to me watching you throw your typical tantrum when you are wrong, I don't need the entertainment.
Just stop while you are behind.

---

The question is, why is this important to the case of Babbitt's death? If officers did leave their posts, that has nothing to do with Babbitt's choice.

This idea that "if they had remained then the door would have remained secured, thus saving her life" is ridiculous. It assumes that the mob that made it that far, caused that much destruction, and hurt others would have stopped. It also completely removes the responsibility from Babbitt and the rest of the terrorists.

It's an attempt to be clever and shift focus/blame, but it's ridiculous at best and dangerously ignorant at worst.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by catman

Trapped? With many other exits available to them?
Nice try, but that quote was simply for effect. I showed you the layout of the capitol building. There are at least 4 exits from the congressional chambers. If one was blocked by protestors, several others were available.
No need to rehash your speculations as to what happened. I saw the video, showing the 3 officers assigned to guard the door walking casually away. No urgency in their movements. Had they been "trying to get out of the line of fire", I would assume that they would be moving a whole lot quicker than they did.
No need to slide into "little natey" mode here. I don't need the entertainment.
Edit:
I have been consistent in my statements. The officers assigned to guard the door abandoned their post and should have been fired for doing so.

---

Then why were they still there?

You've been consistently wrong in your statements, so.. good for you on consistency, I guess.

Now answer the question: if they weren't trapped, as multiple people that were there have said they were, then why didn't they simply leave? Around 36 people just decided to hang around for the fun of it?

Were they? Are you sure they hadn't been escorted out another exit to the secure areas in the basement?
Nate, you are still clinging to your fantasy that the delegation was trapped because one of the 4 exits was blocked? I guess in your mind they might have been, but in reality, they had ample opportunities to leave the chamber.
No need for you to respond further. I don't need more of your speculations and fantasy.