depends what u mean by legit playoff team. it feels like we need 3-4 players honestly.Quote:
Originally Posted by aman_13
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depends what u mean by legit playoff team. it feels like we need 3-4 players honestly.Quote:
Originally Posted by aman_13
That’s exactly what we need. That’s not that bad though. Doable in draft+FA.Quote:
Originally Posted by ecart
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecart
Yeah but I'm only just sayin who is going to want to come to Toronto though in free agency? It really is a simple question. I'm not trying to bait or troll at all really I am not. But Toronto used to be a free agency destination way back when but now it is just not.
But also looking at the 2021 free agency class, it is devoid of talent pretty much because everyone is coming off that board one by one. Only big names that are there are: DeRozan, Kawhi, Drummond, Lonzo, Conley, Lord knows who else
Also Toronto's organization is still trying to work itself out isn't it? I mean isn't Masai's contract still in question this summer?
Not to mention free agents like Lowry, Trent Jr and who else on this team?
And not to mention mocks have you guys picking at like 6 or 7 range now and there isn't really someone that you can say is franchise altering there that can lead your franchise to being what it was and that is being elite
When Freddy was your 5th or 6th best player, you were a championship team. When he is your 1st or 2nd option, you are detroit pistons. Raptors definitely need to add some serious talent if they want to be a legit contenders. If they are happy with making the playoffs and getting bounced in early rounds then they can add some depth to this core and be on their way. This season is an eye opener for sure. I didn't expect them to be playing this poorly. I don't think they are intentionally losing. They are just playing bad basketball. You shouldn't be losing to teams like OKC, Hou etc. Hopefully MU is going to evaluate the core as well. This off season is going to be very important for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by ecart
He’s talking about this seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
I never said Baynes or Len were good shooters...just the best they could do with the money they had and their strong desire not to commit any money past this season. Baynes makes me laugh when he shoots too, and I was one that didn't like it that much right away, but they werent going to give Christian Wood a big time deal. They got Boucher ( who has been a steal) but they weren't able to find a true starting 5 that fit this team once Gasol and Ibaka left them high and dry.Quote:
Originally Posted by ecart
I don't understand what is so hard to believe about the 1 year thing either. They literally didnt spend a dime that was guaranteed past this season. You may not like it, but its not a lame excuse...unless you mean it was lame for them to try and keep some cap space for this off season.
I mean just look at the Powell trade. If they didnt want some cap space this summer, Powell would still be here. They know they need to get more talent...and that is how they plan to do it ( imo).
They prioritized Gasol over Serge because they wanted a defensive minded 5 who could space the floor for Kyle, FVV , Norm and Pascal... And probably thought Gasol at his age would be more apt to accept a 1 year deal. ( Not to mention the advanced stats all favored Gasol with the other 4 starters)
To me it seemed like they went after the closest thing to a replacement for Gasol as they could find once he screwed them...and that was Baynes. He was a big guy who can set screens, plays hard and take some 3's. He just didn't pan out becuase he is a backup they tried to make a starter... And hr shouldn't be taking those 3's...lmao
( note: Len was just another big body that came cheap since they didn't really have anyone else)
They obviously wanted Gasol, and then Ibaka...but lost out on both. After that the season was lost even if they were playing in Toronto. Now they are just going to get a better pick in the first round, 2 second round picks, and either more cap space or a healthy Rodney Hood along with GTJ instead of Powell to help them rebuild this team.
I want Powell back in the off season. Unless Portland plans to give him something foolish, he might be my primary free agent target this off season. He is family and should be welcomed home!!!
I don't expect him to do anything drastic with OG/Siakam/FVV. They are all locked in and this season has been a contextual nightmare to evaluate their short/long term value. Even with COVID recovery, relocation, etc., I'd argue FVV and OG are showing they are worth the contracts they signed. Siakam is the guy with legitimate questions around him, but I can't see them pulling the trigger on anything this summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersweet
I think we'll see them try to add 3 building blocks around OG/Siakam/FVV. The first will likely be Trent Jr, as he is an RFA and they dealt Powell for him. The next will be in the draft lottery. And the final big piece will be using that 20 million in cap space to go after another impact player who is still relatively young through a trade or free agency.
Then they probably keep Boucher, Harris and Flynn.
Make decisions on Bembry, Watson, Watanabe.
Say goodbye to Stanley Johnson, Pat McCaw, Aron Baynes, Rodney Hood, Kyle Lowry
A “legit” playoff team wouldn’t have to go through a play in tournament simply to get in to the playoffs. That’s for the guys that would other wise tank. A legit playoff team is higher seeded and is expected to atleast reach the 2nd round. This team can’t win a game, and would have to fight just to get a spot in the play in tourni.Quote:
Originally Posted by aman_13
Fooling ourselves to think this is a playoff team as constructed right now could end up costing us a lotto pick.
We have 20 something games left. Aren’t you at least intrigued by the possibility of adding a very talented young player to the core of this group?
Do you know how the Spurs got to draft Tim Duncan after being a perennial playoff team? They went through a lost season due to injury. Now we didn’t have any freak injuries, but this is pretty much a lost season. Why not go after that pick? Because we’re a few games out of the last play in tourni? Does watching this team in that tourni going to be worth missing out on a top pick? I really don’t think so. I think we can take a small step back to take a bigger step forward for next season.
Everything you said is true but can also be perceived as miss steps or mistakes. Which is ok, it happens. Losing those two cost us the season, but it’s not the end of the world. We can replace them. It would be a lot harder if they were star level talents. It’s all good we can move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by bartron_44
Also with respect to the cap space, I’m pretty sure they wanted all that cap space for Giannis and now he’s not an option and when you look at the team pay roll, we really don’t have that much cap space next year, because all the extensions kick in.
I don’t disagree about Norm. I’m not sure how much it would take to sign him here but we would also have to resign Trent Jr and then make a decision on Lowry as well.
I mean all you're really doing is summarizing what happened. We're criticizing what happened. If we accept that premise, then we will go down the same path. But I don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by bartron_44
Also I'm saying it's a lame excuse for anyone, including Masai, to say that giving Green an extra year (just an example) would have ****ed up their cap space. We've seen GMs clear small to medium contracts like nothing in the past.
Should also note (not sure if its been mentioned), Lowry is out for 7-10 days.
implicit permission to tank XDQuote:
Originally Posted by pebloemer
He likely won’t be playing very many games the rest of the way. There’s only 20 something games left. The tank is in full motionQuote:
Originally Posted by pebloemer
Remember when we started 2-8 and people thought it was just bad luck. Maybe we should have read more into that. Maybe this 2-16 run is a regression.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smith&wesson
I also don't disagree that it was mistake to hold out hope for Giannis in any shape or form. II just hope this season reminds them that a good big is still very valuable. I just don't know who they can target.
Also ecart, I don't think that is going to be a problem again this off season....and I agree I hope they don't do it again any time soon. If they weren't going to give a guaranteed 2nd year to Gasol, Ibaka or Boucher though I doubt they were going to offer it to anyone else. It's not like this team should be this bad. They should have still been a playoff team if not for covid costing them their home and then zapping their best players. If that happened though it would have been interesting to see if they still would have traded Powell..
Holup.
We’re going to have 20 mil in cap space even if we pick up the option on boucher and retain GTJr?
If they renounce all rights to everyone not under guaranteed contracts or pick up options, they have $29.7. If they keep Boucher, Bembry and Watson's options and GTJ's bird rights, then it is $19.9M (I'm assuming 10th pick). I think it is going to be less with incentives and bonuses we don't know about (Lowry had a 500k bonus last season). So to be safe, it is probably ~$18M. For all we know, FVV might have a bonus for hitting 20ppg.
But will the Raptors even want to? I can see them keeping GTJ way before I can ever see them keepin Boucher who at times has shown he can be a dominant center in this league but then he becomes inconsistent at most timesQuote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
Boucher is too cheap for them not to keep.
That is very trueQuote:
Originally Posted by ecart
Yeah boucher is a bargain. Could add a nice piece for that cap. Not nice than Lowry though.
idk i dont think 20 goes as far as it once did. we got unlucky with siakam. a year later, i doubt he gets 30+.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smith&wesson
It's not really about what we want. The fact is they have every reason to win games because the play in incentivised it. They are a proud group and it is easy to see based on their body language and what they say in interviews that they havent given up. You won't see me complain if they lose out because obviously a top 5 pick would be fantastic. That goes without saying.
This team has holes but yeah I don't believe they are far off from being a team that can get to the second round any given season. I'll go as far as saying that I see this season as a fluke. That is not to say that I think this team is very good because they do need to add some talent but they are not this bad either.
Would you have looked at the Knicks before this year as a top 6 team in the East? The Hornets are sitting at 4th. The Celtics and Pacers 8th and 9th. Its been a weird season but one can somewhat explain it with this crazy schedule, playing in Tampa and covid.
I'll be the first to say I'm wrong if they suck next yr but I expect them to be back in the playoffs next season.
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I agree that they probably won't touch Fredy or OG. But Siakam may be a fair game if there is a good enough deal that comes through (Eg. Beal). I don't think he is untouchable like he use to be. I still hope the bounces back and keeps improving. But the money he makes and the inconsistencies he has shown may have changed his status.Quote:
Originally Posted by pebloemer
Celtics and Pacers not really. They were both teams that were always injuries away from missing the playoffs. TJ Warren had a season ending injury really early on. Celtics have been leaking talent last couple seasons and have never replaced them. They got lucky last season with everyone being relatively healthy but they were always known for lacking depth.Quote:
Originally Posted by aman_13
Knicks weren't that far off last season. They just had a rough start with Fizdale but they were playing decent ball towards the end. Not that surprising to see them at .500.
Hornets not that surprising either. They have a good young core going and they added Hayward and Ball.
Chicago caught me off guard. I thought they would be much worse but Lavine stole some games I guess.
Atlanta I thought would be much better considering how much talent they've added. Maybe they'll play up to expectations under Nate.
Also surprised with Portland hanging in there. Thought they would lose more games with CJ out.
It might be surprising to see them up there in the standings, but the East isn't exactly winning a **** ton of games this season. Playing borderline .500 ball isn't really that hard to do tbh.
OG is too important to our defence and legit 3 and D guys are too prized a commodity. Siakam plays an unicorn position, regardless of how much he makes, it's just too hard to replace a PF like that. Freddy is the most expendable imo. Guards are a dime a dozen. They won't move on from him anytime soon but if I was a betting man that is who I would pick.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersweet
The Hornets haven't really been that good though. Middle of the league defense and their offense is on par with the Raptors as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ecart
Thibs has his team playing defense so I can see why they have been able to stick around .500 but it's crazy to look at those standings in the East. Almost every team has gone through struggles.
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I think you're expecting too much from .500 ball. Middle of the pack ORTG/DRTG, mediocre point differential sounds about right for a .500 team. DRTG is very interesting this season. A lot of teams hovering around 110.Quote:
Originally Posted by aman_13
Richaun Holmes would look nice here.
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Yeah I'm trying to put the Raptors' season into perspective. The Raptors have a better offense and defense but are 11 games under .500.Quote:
Originally Posted by ecart
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I simply brought it up to make the point that the Raptors are not far off imo. The East looks pretty weak. Obviously they should be striving to be much better which is why a lotto pick would be great. I'd be foolish to refute that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ecart
To your post the other day, a lotto pick and a free agent could make this a quick rebuild.
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It's just numbers. Standings don't care if you blow teams out on wins and keep it close on losses. Besides, it is only 48 games. Numbers are still noisy. Pretty sure we had a strong point differential going into AS break. Now it is negative.Quote:
Originally Posted by aman_13
Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by ecart
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idk we're closer to the bottom than we are to the top.Quote:
Originally Posted by aman_13
Both OG and Freddy have pretty decent contracts. Siakam to me is a little over paid, but you are right, he does play an important position and he can play multiple positions too. But if they are going to add someone legit via trades, they may have to part with someone from the core. My hope is that we get a top 5 pick this year which may change the landscape.Quote:
Originally Posted by ecart
The pick and FA acquisition for a quick rebuild was my post. I’m expecting the team to bounce back next season. If they don’t it’s another failed off-season by the FOQuote:
Originally Posted by aman_13
I’m not sure the Knicks are a good comparison. For one they’ve been rebuilding for years now. We’re expecting a quick retool in a single off-season. Also the Knicks while, a playoff team have a whole lot of work to do before being considered playoff contenders.
Y'all are back in the Bay facing the Warriors...imagine if the game was at Oracle but since it isn't and if y'all are playin on Siakam's birthday then only thing that's acceptable is victory LMAOOOOO
Not sure this even qualifies as a basketball game.
shooting practice
gary trent jr +54, second highest of all time