2020-21 game thread

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02-15-2021, 03:59 PM
pebloemer

Quote:

Originally Posted by smith&wesson

Not really. For all the flack that Russ gets, people don’t realize how militant he is. He is the type of guy that leads his team like an army. Very disciplined in his approach to working in practice, has a no none-sense mentality when it comes to practice and punctuality. Which is ironic because his game isn’t all that disciplined. But his approach very much is.

Russ was really pissed off with Harden. I can source you articles on this if need be. Harden was late to practices, didn’t show up for pre season, on the road in cities that he liked to party in, he arranged for there to be no practice or for the team to stay an extra night if they weren’t playing a back to back so that he could party in that city. That stuff didn’t fly with Russ. Russ is all about preparing for the next game, getting in his work outs, practising hard with the team etc. I know it sounds surprising but that’s Russ.

Now the trade itself. When Morey was running things in Houston he didn’t want to trade for Russ. Tillman Ferttita forced his hand. Also Harden didn’t like Paul, because Paul would try to hold him accountable. (About the same sort of stuff that Russ was upset about)

But when Russ came, it started becoming apparent that Harden infact was the problem. The team simply catered to him too much. There was no accountability. If Harden wants to party then Harden goes and Parties, and if his team mates say anything they get traded away. This was the issue towards the end. At this point you have to understand that the Rockets tried everything. Howard, Capela, Paul, Russ. It didn’t matter who it was, none of them were going to solve the problems there.

Russ actually ended up asking for a trade as a result. He just couldn’t deal with the shenanigans. Russ is not the guy that will disappear on his team like Kyrie, or not show up for pre season like Harden. Russ actually gives a ****. The dude is all heart. The problem is between the ears. His ball iq in real time is just not that great. His decision making in game is just not that great. He plays on raw emotion and that is not good. He needs to think the game out and slow it down but I think he is just use to going 100 km an hour

Fair post. I don't have much love for Harden for many of the reasons you mentioned. I think Chris Paul is actually the exact type of #2 he needed.
02-15-2021, 04:07 PM
smith&wesson

Quote:

Originally Posted by pebloemer

7th/8th on the depth chart? What names do you have above him on our depth chart?

The issue for me isn't can Powell be a 1st or 2nd option. We both know he can't. So he doesn't try to. He plays within the team concept. Westbrook clearly can't succeed as a 1st or 2nd option either. But he still thinks he is a guy that can and has shown 0 ability to adapt his game to take a lesser role. You are right, it is a pretty easy pick to make. I would literally pick 100 players ahead of Westbrook if the league were in the draft today.

This is literally the first season he has been higher on the depth chart.

Lowry Leonard Siakam FVV Ibaka Gasol Green - ship run norm = 8th
Lowry FVV OG Siakam Ibaka Gasol- last year = norm = 7th

And the years prior he was never above 7th in the rotation.
02-15-2021, 04:08 PM
smith&wesson

Quote:

Originally Posted by pebloemer

Fair post. I don't have much love for Harden for many of the reasons you mentioned. I think Chris Paul is actually the exact type of #2 he needed.

He absolutely was. And our best chance ever was with him in 2018 when the rockets and warriors were tied in the WCFs until Paul got injured. That was the closest the Rockets ever got in the Harden era.
02-15-2021, 04:10 PM
smith&wesson

What are the chances we can land Drummond with out giving up Norm?
02-15-2021, 04:55 PM
Raps18-19 Champ

Quote:

Originally Posted by smith&wesson

What are the chances we can land Drummond with out giving up Norm?

To make salaries work, Norm or Boucher has to be included.
02-15-2021, 05:20 PM
smith&wesson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

To make salaries work, Norm or Boucher has to be included.

Bobby Boucher is a keeper. Lol
02-15-2021, 06:31 PM
pebloemer

Quote:

Originally Posted by smith&wesson

This is literally the first season he has been higher on the depth chart.

Lowry Leonard Siakam FVV Ibaka Gasol Green - ship run norm = 8th
Lowry FVV OG Siakam Ibaka Gasol- last year = norm = 7th

And the years prior he was never above 7th in the rotation.

Ok, we talking offensive options? Gasol and OG were ahead in the rotation because their defense, but they weren't better (or more used) offensive options than Powell last year.
02-15-2021, 09:01 PM
smith&wesson

Quote:

Originally Posted by pebloemer

Ok, we talking offensive options? Gasol and OG were ahead in the rotation because their defense, but they weren't better (or more used) offensive options than Powell last year.

I just meant in terms of importance. To me Powell was not a starter or a 6th man, that puts him as the 7th man logically.

But in any case this brings up another question. If we retain Powell, what type of contract would we be looking realistically? I imagine he has raised his value since being a starter. I love the way he’s been playing as a starter, and all indications show that he’s much better in a starting role vs coming off the bench. Maybe he is the future 2guard of this team in the back court with FVV.
02-15-2021, 10:38 PM
pebloemer

Quote:

Originally Posted by smith&wesson

I just meant in terms of importance. To me Powell was not a starter or a 6th man, that puts him as the 7th man logically.

But in any case this brings up another question. If we retain Powell, what type of contract would we be looking realistically? I imagine he has raised his value since being a starter. I love the way he’s been playing as a starter, and all indications show that he’s much better in a starting role vs coming off the bench. Maybe he is the future 2guard of this team in the back court with FVV.

The value went up last year. He was a decent 6th man candidate. He had an awful first 10 games (not unlike this year) and went on to average close to 20ppg the rest of the way. He finished with 16 ppg on 50/40/85% for the season.

For your other question, I'd consider bring him back. I wouldn't want to overpay, but he'll certainly get an increase. I'd want him somewhere under FVV's value if possible, but I wouldn't be surprised to see another team throw 20 million a year at him.
02-16-2021, 12:27 AM
smith&wesson

Quote:

Originally Posted by pebloemer

The value went up last year. He was a decent 6th man candidate. He had an awful first 10 games (not unlike this year) and went on to average close to 20ppg the rest of the way. He finished with 16 ppg on 50/40/85% for the season.

For your other question, I'd consider bring him back. I wouldn't want to overpay, but he'll certainly get an increase. I'd want him somewhere under FVV's value if possible, but I wouldn't be surprised to see another team throw 20 million a year at him.

A team like the 6ers can really use a player like Powell.

Would you agree that he is a better starter vs coming off the bench?
02-16-2021, 08:59 AM
pebloemer

Quote:

Originally Posted by smith&wesson

A team like the 6ers can really use a player like Powell.

Would you agree that he is a better starter vs coming off the bench?

Seems like something to that. Although when he returned to the bench last year he was still stellar. It is possible he just takes a while to get into his rhythm to start the season.

Morey isn’t hesitant to trade his picks if history tells us anything. Might be an easier deal to make than a Lowry trade given the salary. But I would love another 1st round pick in this draft, even if it is late.
02-16-2021, 01:32 PM
smith&wesson

Quote:

Originally Posted by pebloemer

Seems like something to that. Although when he returned to the bench last year he was still stellar. It is possible he just takes a while to get into his rhythm to start the season.

Morey isn’t hesitant to trade his picks if history tells us anything. Might be an easier deal to make than a Lowry trade given the salary. But I would love another 1st round pick in this draft, even if it is late.

That brings me to my next question, I know you like the talent in this upcoming draft. So much so that you want another pick. But Hawks are rumoured to shop Collins for a first rounder. Collins makes only $4 mill, we could give Stan Johnson or McCaw along with our first round pick and attain Collins. Would that be too risky given that he’s an expiring contract? Or are we better off to just keep our pick due to the depth and talent in the draft
02-16-2021, 02:32 PM
Saint Raptor

Quote:

Originally Posted by smith&wesson

That brings me to my next question, I know you like the talent in this upcoming draft. So much so that you want another pick. But Hawks are rumoured to shop Collins for a first rounder. Collins makes only $4 mill, we could give Stan Johnson or McCaw along with our first round pick and attain Collins. Would that be too risky given that he’s an expiring contract? Or are we better off to just keep our pick due to the depth and talent in the draft

Honestly, this very much depends on where we expect our draft pick to fall. I mean, if we make the playoffs, then our pick can't be any better than #15, and, to me, that would be acceptable to lose in the deal. However, if without making the trade we can get in the lottery and get a top 5 pick, then I wouldn't want to lose that. This draft is littered with talent, but like other drafts, the most potential for superstardom is in that very top. I wouldn't get Collins for Kuminga, Green, Mobley, Cunningham or Suggs.
02-16-2021, 03:08 PM
smith&wesson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Raptor

Honestly, this very much depends on where we expect our draft pick to fall. I mean, if we make the playoffs, then our pick can't be any better than #15, and, to me, that would be acceptable to lose in the deal. However, if without making the trade we can get in the lottery and get a top 5 pick, then I wouldn't want to lose that. This draft is littered with talent, but like other drafts, the most potential for superstardom is in that very top. I wouldn't get Collins for Kuminga, Green, Mobley, Cunningham or Suggs.

Well here’s the thing, top 6 seed make the playoffs for certain. 7-10 seed do a play in tourney to see who gets in. With that format I don’t see how we miss the playoffs so I think a lottery pick is out of the question entirely. Which means ATL won’t do the deal unless we add a sweetener like Davis Raps-Champ mentioned in the other thread.
02-16-2021, 03:58 PM
bartron_44

^^Then you add the sweetener and get it done..lol

Collins is an expiring, but he is also a RFA, and has bird rights. So if they don't want to let him walk, he doesn't go anywhere. (The importance of this cannot be overstated). It isn't a risk that he is a rental. The only question is how much you are going to have to pay him.

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