2020-21 game thread

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03-13-2021, 01:48 PM
ChongInc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by killersweet

I agree with this assessment. Powell is streaky and still needs to see how he would perform in a playoff setting. The core of Siakam-Fred-OG-Powell is underwhelming. I don't think raptors would be a contender with that core and there would be quite a bit of money tied to that core.

Hol up.

You saying you aren’t sure how playoff Powell will respond in the bright lights of the playoffs?
03-13-2021, 04:24 PM
bartron_44

Quote:

Originally Posted by killersweet

I have come to the realization that most likely Lowry won't be traded and it sucks. We lost Gasol and Ibaka for nothing. Now most likely we are going to lose Lowry and Powell for nothing as well. At least last year raptors played some great basketball in the regular season and looked like they would make some noise in the playoffs. This year their play hasn't been as impressive and I really hope they turn it around. Even if we don't trade lowry and powell, I really hope we make some moves to improve the team so that at least we can look forward to some decent basketball in the playoffs.

Actually, their final 21 games before Covid took out half their lineup they were one of the best teams in the NBA. It took some time for Nurse to give up on starting Baynes, but once they went small and started using Baynes off the bench they went back to playing great Raptor basketball.

I know their record isn't the greatest anymore after going 1-5 over their last 6 games, but they went 14-7 before that with a bunch of wins against the top teams in the East. Even Embiid and the sixers couldn't beat them at full strength.

If they do lose Lowry for nothing after this year it will be tough....but that seems to be how Masai and Bobby like to role. They don't like to give up on any season so they hang on to good players until their deals run out and take their chances that they will want to stay. They have a pretty darn good record without Lowry over the past 2 years. Imagine they add another 20-30 million dollars in players and then bring Powell back? Not the worst scenario...

However, I think if Lowry leaves it will be to go to a contender. ...and not many will have the money to pay him close to top dollar without a sign and trade. If Lowry isn't brought back, I think we likely see a sign and trade. There are only a couple teams out there with the ability to give him top dollar if he chases money ( NY, SA) and the only contender of any kind that could pay him 20+ would be Miami. I think "the best thing for Kyle Lowry" is going to be whatever Masai and Bobby give him. ...or whatever Masai and Bobby can get for him via sign and trade.

I think Lowry looks at the market, and the Raptors cap space and he believes it will be best for both parties for him to stick around. ..and that is why he worded his answer to the question on will he retire a raptor the way he did.
03-13-2021, 04:36 PM
ChongInc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bartron_44

Actually, their final 21 games before Covid took out half their lineup they were one of the best teams in the NBA. It took some time for Nurse to give up on starting Baynes, but once they went small and started using Baynes off the bench they went back to playing great Raptor basketball.

I know their record isn't the greatest anymore after going 1-5 over their last 6 games, but they went 14-7 before that with a bunch of wins against the top teams in the East. Even Embiid and the sixers couldn't beat them at full strength.

If they do lose Lowry for nothing after this year it will be tough....but that seems to be how Masai and Bobby like to role. They don't like to give up on any season so they hang on to good players until their deals run out and take their chances that they will want to stay. They have a pretty darn good record without Lowry over the past 2 years. Imagine they add another 20-30 million dollars in players and then bring Powell back? Not the worst scenario...

However, I think if Lowry leaves it will be to go to a contender. ...and not many will have the money to pay him close to top dollar without a sign and trade. If Lowry isn't brought back, I think we likely see a sign and trade. There are only a couple teams out there with the ability to give him top dollar if he chases money ( NY, SA) and the only contender of any kind that could pay him 20+ would be Miami. I think "the best thing for Kyle Lowry" is going to be whatever Masai and Bobby give him. ...or whatever Masai and Bobby can get for him via sign and trade.

I think Lowry looks at the market, and the Raptors cap space and he believes it will be best for both parties for him to stick around. ..and that is why he worded his answer to the question on will he retire a raptor the way he did.

They can’t just add 20-30 million in talent.
03-13-2021, 06:03 PM
pebloemer

Quote:

Originally Posted by bartron_44

Actually, their final 21 games before Covid took out half their lineup they were one of the best teams in the NBA. It took some time for Nurse to give up on starting Baynes, but once they went small and started using Baynes off the bench they went back to playing great Raptor basketball.

I know their record isn't the greatest anymore after going 1-5 over their last 6 games, but they went 14-7 before that with a bunch of wins against the top teams in the East. Even Embiid and the sixers couldn't beat them at full strength.

If they do lose Lowry for nothing after this year it will be tough....but that seems to be how Masai and Bobby like to role. They don't like to give up on any season so they hang on to good players until their deals run out and take their chances that they will want to stay. They have a pretty darn good record without Lowry over the past 2 years. Imagine they add another 20-30 million dollars in players and then bring Powell back? Not the worst scenario...

However, I think if Lowry leaves it will be to go to a contender. ...and not many will have the money to pay him close to top dollar without a sign and trade. If Lowry isn't brought back, I think we likely see a sign and trade. There are only a couple teams out there with the ability to give him top dollar if he chases money ( NY, SA) and the only contender of any kind that could pay him 20+ would be Miami. I think "the best thing for Kyle Lowry" is going to be whatever Masai and Bobby give him. ...or whatever Masai and Bobby can get for him via sign and trade.

I think Lowry looks at the market, and the Raptors cap space and he believes it will be best for both parties for him to stick around. ..and that is why he worded his answer to the question on will he retire a raptor the way he did.

If he sticks around, what cap space are you referring to? Spoiler.... (none).
03-13-2021, 07:14 PM
ecart

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChongInc.

Hol up.

You saying you aren’t sure how playoff Powell will respond in the bright lights of the playoffs?

lol he has only had a couple good games against the Bucks. he has been complete garbage in any other series.
03-13-2021, 08:55 PM
killersweet

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChongInc.

Hol up.

You saying you aren’t sure how playoff Powell will respond in the bright lights of the playoffs?

He has been average in the limited role/usage. Verdict is still out on a bigger role. Teams defensively tend to adjust to players like powell in the playoffs. So will be interesting to see how he performs in the playoffs this year.
03-13-2021, 08:56 PM
ChongInc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecart

lol he has only had a couple good games against the Bucks. he has been complete garbage in any other series.

...
well here he is as a rookie against the pacers.
https://youtu.be/uao0ZZ8r52s

Dudes always shown flashes of being able to do what he is now doing consistently: https://youtu.be/EZbMozDczSw

+ I hate the idea of developing a guy for 6 years or whatever, and then when he reaches his final form another team reaps the benefits.
03-13-2021, 09:02 PM
killersweet

Quote:

Originally Posted by bartron_44

Actually, their final 21 games before Covid took out half their lineup they were one of the best teams in the NBA. It took some time for Nurse to give up on starting Baynes, but once they went small and started using Baynes off the bench they went back to playing great Raptor basketball.

I know their record isn't the greatest anymore after going 1-5 over their last 6 games, but they went 14-7 before that with a bunch of wins against the top teams in the East. Even Embiid and the sixers couldn't beat them at full strength.

If they do lose Lowry for nothing after this year it will be tough....but that seems to be how Masai and Bobby like to role. They don't like to give up on any season so they hang on to good players until their deals run out and take their chances that they will want to stay. They have a pretty darn good record without Lowry over the past 2 years. Imagine they add another 20-30 million dollars in players and then bring Powell back? Not the worst scenario...

However, I think if Lowry leaves it will be to go to a contender. ...and not many will have the money to pay him close to top dollar without a sign and trade. If Lowry isn't brought back, I think we likely see a sign and trade. There are only a couple teams out there with the ability to give him top dollar if he chases money ( NY, SA) and the only contender of any kind that could pay him 20+ would be Miami. I think "the best thing for Kyle Lowry" is going to be whatever Masai and Bobby give him. ...or whatever Masai and Bobby can get for him via sign and trade.

I think Lowry looks at the market, and the Raptors cap space and he believes it will be best for both parties for him to stick around. ..and that is why he worded his answer to the question on will he retire a raptor the way he did.

Yes, their play has been improved and I think they can be an annoying team for the top teams in the east. If they can add some talent at deadline, they can be an interesting round 2 team. My point was based on my assumption that lowry will be going to a contender in the off season and powell will be getting a big offer from another team. So losing both would suck. But this is a difficult situation for the raptors. So we'll see how the deadline plays out.
03-13-2021, 09:06 PM
ecart

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChongInc.

...
well here he is as a rookie against the pacers.
https://youtu.be/uao0ZZ8r52s

Dudes always shown flashes of being able to do what he is now doing consistently: https://youtu.be/EZbMozDczSw

+ I hate the idea of developing a guy for 6 years or whatever, and then when he reaches his final form another team reaps the benefits.

He has highlights so people have rosy memories about him but he was actually garbage up until that game. it's fine when he was a rookie or on a bargain contract, but as soon as he gets paid, expectations are going to shift and there's going to be a billion threads about how he doesn't try anymore once he got a big contract. spoiler he just wasn't that good to begin with.

I mean he hasn't really been able to do it consistently. If he was people wouldn't have to preface any discussion about him with "as a starter" which people have been doing ever since he was a rookie. idk why people are acting like this is new.

He's still what other people would label him derisively as a system player. Excellent value thus far but still mostly off of transition and set plays, very little improvement on bball iq and probably the most overrated defender in Raps history (he's actually low key pretty bad). All these extrapolations are a bit too hopeful.

I'm not going to root against him cause I'm still a Raptor fan and I hope he proves me wrong but I'm not gonna get my hopes up.
03-13-2021, 10:42 PM
ChongInc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecart

He has highlights so people have rosy memories about him but he was actually garbage up until that game. it's fine when he was a rookie or on a bargain contract, but as soon as he gets paid, expectations are going to shift and there's going to be a billion threads about how he doesn't try anymore once he got a big contract. spoiler he just wasn't that good to begin with.

I mean he hasn't really been able to do it consistently. If he was people wouldn't have to preface any discussion about him with "as a starter" which people have been doing ever since he was a rookie. idk why people are acting like this is new.

He's still what other people would label him derisively as a system player. Excellent value thus far but still mostly off of transition and set plays, very little improvement on bball iq and probably the most overrated defender in Raps history (he's actually low key pretty bad). All these extrapolations are a bit too hopeful.

I'm not going to root against him cause I'm still a Raptor fan and I hope he proves me wrong but I'm not gonna get my hopes up.

Well I hope the open market feels the same way as you do. I’d lock him up, but shorter term. 2 years 20 mil.
03-13-2021, 10:43 PM
ecart

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChongInc.

Well I hope the open market feels the same way as you do. I’d lock him up, but shorter term. 2 years 20 mil.

he is gonna get ~20M
03-14-2021, 02:11 PM
pebloemer

Quote:

Originally Posted by killersweet

I have come to the realization that most likely Lowry won't be traded and it sucks. We lost Gasol and Ibaka for nothing. Now most likely we are going to lose Lowry and Powell for nothing as well. At least last year raptors played some great basketball in the regular season and looked like they would make some noise in the playoffs. This year their play hasn't been as impressive and I really hope they turn it around. Even if we don't trade lowry and powell, I really hope we make some moves to improve the team so that at least we can look forward to some decent basketball in the playoffs.

So you may in fact be right. He might not be traded. I am curious what has led you to that realization. I still think it is very possible. After he met with the media, I actually felt it may be more likely.
03-14-2021, 02:22 PM
ChongInc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecart

he is gonna get ~20M

Oh I meant 20 per.
03-14-2021, 03:41 PM
Raps18-19 Champ

I dont mind trading Powell (here's hoping for a 1st) but not Lowry.

I don't mind signing back both though in FA (ie tradr Powell and sign him).
03-14-2021, 05:20 PM
pebloemer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

I dont mind trading Powell (here's hoping for a 1st) but not Lowry.

I don't mind signing back both though in FA (ie tradr Powell and sign him).

I'd love to deal both for assets then sign one back with cap space in the off-season. I think we could net 4-5 meaningful young assets if we dealt both.

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