After 5 Years Is Ross Atkins the 2nd Best GM in Blue Jays History?

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05-24-2021, 12:00 PM
Raps18-19 Champ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Powders

Before the season started. We were the best team in baseball in 2015 so that garnered us a good preseason rank but our was going to show. We had a lot of holes

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Thats what I mean. After the prior WS, odds had us high to win so Atkins and Shapiro would have been crucified to tear that down.

Predictions held true for most of the season. We had a top 3 run differential in the MLB and led the AL East by end of August. It took a bad Sept to cause us to almost miss the playoffs. Even entering the Cleveland series you couldnt have predicted that the offense would go anemic.
05-24-2021, 12:19 PM
ChongInc.

[QUOTE=Kenny Powders;33960494][QUOTE=ChongInc.;33960173]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Powders

Yeah he wasn't easily a top 5 FA. He brought a lot bot mostly what he brought were intangibles. He was very mediocre at the plate.

As for the tearing it down, I really don't know why your trying to convince me, I was all for tearing it down after 15. The writing was on the wall, we were an old overpaid team with essentially nothing in the farm.

And including Pearson with the likes of Zeuch and Warmoth is laughable. He may have a few injuries but he is still a highly regarded prospect while the other two are career AAAA players

Oh I’m not trying to convince you. Just replying to you comment about “ saying the rebuild has been delayed by several years is highly dramatic”. Elaborating on my comments for clarity.

All 3 of those specs have the chance to be failed 1st rounders, and could have been Martin level prospects if the blew it up accordingly. I think it’s a fair point and I don’t feel the need to defend the statement.
05-24-2021, 12:21 PM
ChongInc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

We had the 2nd best odds to win the 2016 WS and 7th best odds for the 2017 WS. It was a short window of opportunity but pretty hard to tear that down.

Yes. Those were the seasons to add, rather than to sit back idly and let it die. To me, add doesn’t mean bandaids. I’ve already listed the specs I would have shopped/packaged.
05-24-2021, 12:23 PM
ChongInc.

Wrong quote.
05-24-2021, 12:25 PM
ChongInc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

You dont really need to tear down a star studded team because we had no farm. Both GMs got a top 10 farm within 3 years after having a thin farm (traded the farm in 2012 and had a top 10 farm entering 2015, traded the farm in 2015 and had a top 10 farm by entering 2018) so I was pretty comfortable riding that team until you couldnt because our farm was gonna be replenished quickly anyway.

If the team is a middling team without much upside them yea you should trade the team to replenish the farm.

Sanchez and stroman? Pillar?
05-24-2021, 12:28 PM
ChongInc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

Thats what I mean. After the prior WS, odds had us high to win so Atkins and Shapiro would have been crucified to tear that down.

Predictions held true for most of the season. We had a top 3 run differential in the MLB and led the AL East by end of August. It took a bad Sept to cause us to almost miss the playoffs. Even entering the Cleveland series you couldnt have predicted that the offense would go anemic.

Bad September’s often correlate with bad trade deadlines.
05-24-2021, 03:21 PM
Raps18-19 Champ

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChongInc.

Bad September’s often correlate with bad trade deadlines.

That deadline wasnt bad. We had a pretty good deadline that year.

We had a bad Sept because everyone couldnt hit in Sept despite mashing from June to Aug

Donaldson hit 222/390/389
Saunders just sucked (was an all star mid July)
Tulo hit 269/314/398
Martin hit 161/315/310 (he was slugging 840 or more in June/July/Aug)
EE hit 255/354/464 (he smashed over 900 OPS or more in June/July/Aug)

Jose was the only one who performed similar in Sept to his avg that year and he was injured a ton between June to Aug.

Not sure what TDL acquisition Atkins could have gotten that would have gotten these guys to not slump at the worst time.
05-24-2021, 03:25 PM
Raps18-19 Champ

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChongInc.

Yes. Those were the seasons to add, rather than to sit back idly and let it die. To me, add doesn’t mean bandaids. I’ve already listed the specs I would have shopped/packaged.

They didnt sit idle in the offseason before 2016 season or the 2016 deadline.

For 2017, that was a bad offseason. Management had every intentionnto bring back EE on a 5 year deal (so they were willing to add to an aging but still dangerous lineup to extend the window a bit). I get not waiting for EE but not sure why they thought Morales was somehow a solution. It luckily sped up the dismantle as they could justify not adding to the roster since they did bad in 2017.

I get not waiting around for EE.
05-24-2021, 04:08 PM
ChongInc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

That deadline wasnt bad. We had a pretty good deadline that year.

We had a bad Sept because everyone couldnt hit in Sept despite mashing from June to Aug

Donaldson hit 222/390/389
Saunders just sucked (was an all star mid July)
Tulo hit 269/314/398
Martin hit 161/315/310 (he was slugging 840 or more in June/July/Aug)
EE hit 255/354/464 (he smashed over 900 OPS or more in June/July/Aug)

Jose was the only one who performed similar in Sept to his avg that year and he was injured a ton between June to Aug.

Not sure what TDL acquisition Atkins could have gotten that would have gotten these guys to not slump at the worst time.

Should have added a bat?
05-24-2021, 04:10 PM
ChongInc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

They didnt sit idle in the offseason before 2016 season or the 2016 deadline.

For 2017, that was a bad offseason. Management had every intentionnto bring back EE on a 5 year deal (so they were willing to add to an aging but still dangerous lineup to extend the window a bit). I get not waiting for EE but not sure why they thought Morales was somehow a solution. It luckily sped up the dismantle as they could justify not adding to the roster since they did bad in 2017.

I get not waiting around for EE.

Considering 2016 saw us get worse across the board and we watched those tradable specs flame out... I’d say they didn’t do enough.

Also I don’t understand not waiting on EE when he would have eventually accepted the 5 year offer. Atkins seems to have learned some patience since then though.
05-24-2021, 04:25 PM
Raps18-19 Champ

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChongInc.

Should have added a bat?

We added Upton who was pretty decent platoon. At the end of July TDL or Aug deadline, dont think there was enough of a need to add a star (considering the team was mashing in June/July/Aug
05-24-2021, 04:27 PM
Raps18-19 Champ

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChongInc.

Considering 2016 saw us get worse across the board and we watched those tradable specs flame out... I’d say they didn’t do enough.

Also I don’t understand not waiting on EE when he would have eventually accepted the 5 year offer. Atkins seems to have learned some patience since then though.

There was no real need to make big moves in 2016. They added enough complimentary pieces. Its easy to say things in hindsight that we should have traded prospects who didnt work out to make up for the fact the team wpuld be bad in Sept. You couldnt have known either back in Aug 2016.

I would have waited for EE but understand why they didnt. Why they thoight Morales was somehow going to be a good signing, Im not sure about that.
06-17-2021, 09:31 AM
ChongInc.

Remember all the flak I got from Reed for saying the team wasn’t built to win this season and they wouldn’t be true contenders?

Hell... if we don’t win the division next season then our best case scenario is 2023 - the prediction I made back in 2018 based on the timeline of our pitching prospects.

What a crazy thing for a person to say on a sports forum lol. FoRuM cAnCeR!
06-17-2021, 02:05 PM
hanton

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChongInc.

Remember all the flak I got from Reed for saying the team wasn’t built to win this season and they wouldn’t be true contenders?

Hell... if we don’t win the division next season then our best case scenario is 2023 - the prediction I made back in 2018 based on the timeline of our pitching prospects.

What a crazy thing for a person to say on a sports forum lol. FoRuM cAnCeR!

you can't really time it, maybe with a team that was a player away but this team and at this time....we are in build mode with a chance to get to the WS within a few years (2021 - 2023) (viewing it in 2019/2020)

As we are discovering this season and I've mentioned it numerous times, there are too many variables and the FO needs to be quick on their feet to adjust for the unexpected.
06-17-2021, 02:25 PM
pebloemer

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanton

you can't really time it, maybe with a team that was a player away but this team and at this time....we are in build mode with a chance to get to the WS within a few years (2021 - 2023)

As we are discovering this season and I've mentioned it numerous times, there are too many variables and the FO needs to be quick on their feet to adjust for the unexpected.

I agree about the variables comment. And the FO have definitely put themselves in an enviable position with young assets and a pretty clean budget. Now is when they have to make quick and hard decisions on key players and prospects.

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