Lol. Yes it was compared to those guys. It was based on his years in control of the team. Atkins was nobody before he came here so obviously he wasn’t compared to him. But yeah he traded many specs, along with many failed specs for a contender. We trying to win the minors championships or the World Series lmao?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaotic98
Atkins lucked into an aging contender begging to be sold for parts (****ed that up), and the best hitting prospect of all time. Could be one of the best jobs any GM has ever had the opportunity to take control of. Lucked into a farm and scouting department that was the envy of the rest of the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaotic98
Dude gave osuna away for what turned into absolutely nothing. Nothing. Not a single asset from a 23 year old closer on pace to have more saves than Rivera.
So injuries are all luck now though I guess? Signing injury prone aging players is how you end up with a populated IL.
I don’t see anyone on that list that has proven to be a cornerstone yet. Only Vlad. Only his predecessors ITL signing.
That quote proves absolutely nothing except that the jays have international scouts. Every team does. But here you are giving atkins credit for signing itl fa, and discrediting AA. That screams bias. So this conversation isn’t going anywhere.
Enjoy your opinion. I have.
But it hasn’t done anything to change mine.
Please elaborate. What have I pivoted on?Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3
Seriously? I really don't want to go down this rabbit hole at all but how do you luck into aging over laid team with lots of holes?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
I thjnk pretty clear that Chong is exagerating because he doesnt like Atkins to combat the overexageration of how much people are saying hos good Atkins has been the past 5 years. He's had his faults but done his fair share as well.
Before he came in Dec 2015, Atkins inherited a team with a short window but was tied with the 2nd best odds to win the WS in 2016. He did great in 2016 in making moves like Liriano, etc.
After 2016 season, Jays were tied for 5th in WS odds and his job in 2017 was to build on top of that. He didnt set the team up for suvcess by signing Morales instead of EE. The injuries and the cliff drop in production didnt help. But not signing EE was a blessing in disguise since it sets the domino for where we are now.
2018 and 2019 was a bad year in terms of asset management IMO but helped us land high draft picks.
2020 was when the kids graduated and we signed Ryu and made the expanded playoffs (thoigh we would have missed in a regular season).
It's pretty clear the amount of inconsistencies and novel benchmarks being applied here to judge the 2 GMs though. Most are probably unintentional (and just human nature as a result of bias) but the others probably are depending on if it fits everyone's agenda.
Pretty sure in the past 5 or 10 pages, I've seen things like:
-"Atkins inherited an old team" on 1 side and "Atkins didnt make much moves somehow ignoring how both the core and suppliment moves that Atkins made helped the team reach the ALCS
-"AA didnt even sign Vlad, it was Cruz" in order to diminish the credit AA gets because of how instrumental Cruz actually was. Would be like saying we shouldnt give Atkins credit for not signing Bichette because he came here due to the Jays player development history from the prior regime and due to his relationship with Tulo (he worked out with Tulo, Goins and Pillar the offseason before).
-"AA inherited a great team so he shouldnt get credit for Braves success" despite him making big moves to get them there even with limited payroll as well (Ozuna, Donaldson, Keuchel, etc). But Atkins also inherited a good team (albiet a shorter window) but for some rrason not all the moves made get credit (especially with theblimited flexibility some of these guys have had).
Imo. - you give that team to a competent GM and we are contenders right now. Look at the team Theo inherited with the Cubs. A MUCH worse situation. But he had the balls to tear it down and built a tsunami of top specs on the same timeline.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Powders
I think he had 2 or 3 assets? And he turned all of them into contributors for their championship run.
This slow trickle of specs and over paying to fill spots in FA is a very tough way to build a contender. Say we are a contender next year - how do you then develop the specs at the ML level? A contender shouldn’t have question marks starting. A contender cannot give away 1500 AB’s to see what we have in a few guys.
I’m not saying he can’t find a way, it’s just not how I would have liked it to be done. I wish him luck because I want a damn parade!
Fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ
One question - I understand he bandaided the BP in 2016. I personally wasn’t that impressed with it because the BP still ended up being our weakness in the playoffs, and once again the following year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ
However - you mention core moves that helped us make the playoffs that year. Can you elaborate on that? What exactly did he do with the core to improve the team and bump us up into the playoffs (WC)?
I’m legitimately curious because I respect your opinions and you have me questioning if I’m misremembering something.
In terms of bull pen, They traded Revere into Storen, ehich was good on paper but didnt work out. Then they traded Storen for Benoit and became lights out but got injured in a fight. We got Grilli that year and our plan was to move Sanchez to the oen after we got Liriano but the opposite happened.
The offense going anemic is what caused us the series against the Indians and what slid us from 1st place in AL east into wild card.
So he didn’t address the core and it cost us? Grilli fell apart in the playoffs. Benoit never made it to the playoffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ
Grilli's ERA in the playoffs in 2016 was 0.00.
Benoit got injured in Sept I believe so hard to replace that.
There wasnt anything to address with the core. If the players underperform when it matters the most thats on them. We walked off the Os and swept the Rangers. It went bad when the offense coudlnt hit against the Indians.
Well, for starters your 2025 prediction. There's plenty other stuff as well but it's not worth my time considering you're only looking for an argument. As per usual.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
Pretty hard to address the core when they're all over 30 and/or making north of 20 mil a year. All thanks to this guy who you seem to think was an amazing GM lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
Why don’t you tell me about my prediction? Because I explained it clearly when I originally said it, and have reiterated it several times because it clearly flew over your head.Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3
If you can even comprehend what I’m asking of you here: tell me what you think I predicted. The thing that you keep bringing up like it’s some valid point that delegitimizes my points.