I’m curious, what puts AA ahead of Atkins? He had no long term plans, went balls to the wall for 1 exciting playoff run then left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampirate
I’m curious, what puts AA ahead of Atkins? He had no long term plans, went balls to the wall for 1 exciting playoff run then left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampirate
The most wins in a season since 1993 with 93 wins, a division banner (not like the NBA, division banners in the MLB hold weight) and actually having that same team get to the ALCS.Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3
Essentially how much post season success will Atkins teams have and how convincingly can they make the post season, can they win 100 games?
Keep in mind the 2016 Jays were pretty much AA's team still and last years team got in like it was the NBA playoffs. I however don't hold the seasons in-between against him though.
If Atkins builds a team that wins 94+ wins, wins the division and gets to the ALCS, he'll outdo what AA did in one season. It's honestly really not that big of a feat.
If Atkins builds a team that makes the World Series he's automatically the #2 Blue Jays GM no question.
It's all about how much games you win and ultimately post season success.
Yea definitely need WS to supplant Pat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampirate
JP, Alex, Gord and Ross all have roughly the same number of years and all have a total record pretty similar though given the playoff appearances, AA and Atkins are ahead.
Depending on who you ask, theyll probably give you different reason as to why 1 is better than the other at this point. If we dont make the playoffs, there isnt much separating AA and Atkins (6 years each with similar record). Some may put weight on the playoff appearance last year but I dont usually hold much weight for most things that happened that year given the circumstances).
Atkins made the ALCS in 2016 after re-tooling the BP and dealing Hutch for Liriano which ended up being a huge boost to the rotation. Bautista and Tulo struggled while Stroman pitched like trash. Russell Martin lost the ability to throw runners out. Sanchez, Estrada and Happ were key pieces in that rotation. 2 of them wouldn’t have been there if AA had his way and retained David Price. EE, JD, Sanchez and Osuna were excellent. If Atkins didn’t fix that team up there’s no way they get the WC that year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampirate
Sure, AA’s team got 93 wins but it came at the cost of taking on and handing out massive deals along with selling the farm for rentals. Atkins has handed out 2 big deals with one of them (Ryu) being a massive underpay for an ace. He’s traded some big name prospects without having to gut the farm.
In the end it’s a matter of opinion but Atkins has this team set up to compete for years upon years. By the time AA got his 93 win season the window was already closing. That’s why I put Atkins way ahead of AA. If AA got the WS in 2015 then he’d be ahead but the gamble didn’t pay off and then he ran away.
It's all about results really, AA has easily created the best team since Pat.Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3
However in the grand scope of things 93 wins and a trip to the ALCS isn't really that high of a bar to get to, it just is when you compare it with JP and Ash.
I'll say this though, as long as Atkins doesn't screw things up he's on path to being #2. The latest deadline moves will be interesting to view in hindsight for a couple of seasons down the road.
As for AA what he taketh away (Thor) he giveth back (Vlad Jr), and honestly were at a point i'd easily rather have Vlad than Thor.
One thing is with your star players, pitching wins games, but pitchers can get injured much easier than every day players. It's just the nature of putting so much torque on your arm.
At this point in time yeah, I’d def prefer Vlad over Thor. It’s just that if we had Thor in 2015 then we probably have a WS banner hanging.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampirate
Estrada and happ were signed by lacava.Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3
None of the specs traded away at the 15 deadline amounted to very much.
Wonder what AA could have accomplished if he started with a Vlad and great scouting/development/prospect-hype-machine…
I suppose he walked into a similar situation to that with the Braves and nothing to brag about yet other than some of the best extensions in baseball.
From here on out - if Atkins wins a championship before AA then there would be no question who’s the better team builder overall.
If the jays make the playoffs (winning the wild card game) this season then I’d say Atkins and AA’s tenures with the jays are about equal. Only a championship would put him over AA this post season in my mind.
If we are in the wild card game next season then then still equal imo, but winning the division would be enough for me to give Atkins the nod.
Winning a championship solves the problem pretty easily. Do it Atkins!
I’m aware of the Estrada and Happ signings being done by LaCava. My point being was they weren’t AA moves. If AA had his way he would’ve kept Price which pretty much guarantees the 2016 team doesn’t make the playoffs. Happ and Estrada were critical pieces on that team.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
Atkins had a 16 year old Vladdy and that’s about it. I don’t know of this scouting and development department you speak of? Can you please give some details on it? Before Gil Kim was hired as the Director of Player Development the Blue Jays had nobody in that position. Just in case you forgot, Kim was hired just a couple months after Shapiro and Atkins took the reigns. It was part of their front office overhaul that focused on the Jays complete lack of player development.
Well that’s a hypothetical fact if I’ve ever heard one.Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3
It was pretty well covered around the time. But hey, have it your way.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
The only coverage of it was a single line quote of “I probably would have made an offer” to price.Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3
The idea that AA would have kept Price and using that against him is a pretty bad hypothetical.
If AA resigned, he still has to report to Shapiro and Shapiro made it clear that there weren't looking to add Price at such a contract goven budget restrainsts. That suddenly doesnt change if it was AA instead of Atkins (especially since Price signed his contract the day after Atkins became the GM). Even if AA wanted to make a contract, he wouldnt have ever signed him since it wouldnt have passed Shapiro or Rogers.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/...sta-floyd.html
Agreed. They simply didn’t have the budget for it. Maybe a low ball offer or a short term offer at best. No one was beating the Sox for price.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ
Whatever helps you sleep at night.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
What about when Price claimed that he understood why the Jays didn’t sign him but if AA was still around it would’ve “hurt”?Quote:
Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ