Too bad I didn't this post until now but to go back on topic, that's exactly how I feel about the points brought up.Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_noodles
Too bad I didn't this post until now but to go back on topic, that's exactly how I feel about the points brought up.Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_noodles
Rules change over time. There's WC teams who have won the WS who wouldn't have even made the post season a decade ago. Thems the breaks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ
He's like #4 for me. If MLB continues with an 8 team playoff from here on out, JP is vindicated in my book. JP would've made the playoffs lots under those rules.
Bidding 30 mil more than the closest competition makes him great? We can think ownership for that gift.Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3
Well he actually put himself in position to make that bid, instead of recklessly dealing actual prospects for old washed up expensive players he bided his time and struck when the time was right....Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
Well Im not discounting his accomplishment completely but I do think its noteworthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3
Your decisions do tend to change based on the circumstances.
Ok so he gets credit for doing nothing and sinking our team to 5th worst in a terribly orchestrated sell off. Gotcha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Powders
I’m happy about where the team is headed finally, but let’s not act like Atkins hasn’t stumbled his way here at every point.
I'm pretty sure this was the actual plan, whether you agree with it or not. Be ******, get good prospects, wait for prospects to get better and supplement the team with FA and trades. It's not new or anythingQuote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
Mmmmmmmm yes. Tell me how signing George Springer doesn't make Atkins amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
It's a much better process than building the farm up for 3 years then getting rid of everyone for a bunch of old and/or injured guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Powders
How so? I just keep up with the times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ
Instead of just signing Springer, Atkins should have waited and traded for him next year and give up money AND PROSPECTS. For him. It'd be foolproofQuote:
Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3
He better not be healthy though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Powders
Is that the overpay it takes to get him here? Big up to Rogers for opening the wallet for sure. But would 10 million over 6 years be enough to get him here? What about $20m? We really have no idea the number it takes. MQuote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
But Chong, it doesn’t seem to matter what he does, you are never pleased with the moves and always find a way to see the negative side of it. I don’t know what you have against him, but he keeps proving you wrong over and over.
Well everything needs context. Im glad that we made the playoffs but circumstances change and you adjust accordingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3
Ie I may not be as impressed as others with Bill russell winning 11 when there was 8 teams, etc.
Yea I found that Springer deal a tad rich and didnt mind if we passed on him to wait it out next year but $150 was probably the price you needed to seal the deal if you wanted him. Cant hold him accountable by saying he needs to sign someone based on how hes talked all offseason then kinda back off afterwards.
I do have concerns how it will affect future spending and didnt like how they frontloaded it (as I mentioned to you) but ill worry about that next year.
Just to piggy back off the other thread:Quote:
Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ
It's funny you didn't express these same concerns in the Marlins trade
Who said I didnt have concerns though? I said outright that I accepted the risks presented when we made the deal. I was afraid that Buerhle was going to demand a trade. Reyes I was comfortable with for that next 2-4 years. JJ was expiring but he was healthy the year before and I didnt know he potentially injured his arm playing catch in the offseason. Based on what we gave up, I was willing to take the risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Powders
With regards to Springer, actually made the comparisons to Tulo and Springer yesterday. Both are 30 with injury concerns and had a large financial commitment. We all know both deals would be bad near the end of it. What we all want to know is if it worth the potential benefit in the next 2-4 years?
I have said I'm against years 5-6 of that deal for Springer. However comparing Springer to Tulo isn't relevant. Tulo was always injured to his legs/groin. For a SS that's hard to come back from, let alone then moving to turf. Secondly, his home and away stats from Coors was huge. A drop off in his O wasn't shocking it was expected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ
I couldn't remember how many seasons he played without hitting the DL twice or for a long period of time. I can't say the same for Springer
How has he proved me wrong about anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_noodles
I was calling for him to sign springer. I never said “I bet he won’t”.
I said “if he doesn’t, he’s screwed”.
I’m betting if he didn’t bid 30 mil more then springer would be a met rn. For that, I thank Rogers (which pains me lol).
Even if Atkins builds a contender I will be overjoyed. I’ve never even said he cannot, just that he hasn’t before and I wonder if he can in the ALE. He hasn’t proved anything to me yet.
Seriously, where is the skill. He let an old team die slowly, and then bid 30mil more for 1 FA.
Bring on the skill Atkins! Nothing would make me happier!
Cue Reed with “you said Atkins couldn’t build a farm!”
Which I never said. Actually I said any one can build a farm when you aren’t trying to win at all.
I’ve been unimpressed with Atkins drafts since he implemented his own scouting staff, but time will tell. Some of these guys could develop and prove me wrong. Imo Pearson and Kirk aren’t enough to say he’s great at drafting. Yet.
Well the decline is another factor that I didnt really bring up since we wont know till after. I dont foresee anything but who knows. Tulo was still an 800 OPS away hitter despite that coors split you mentioned yet he performed worse than 800 so dont think you can see that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaotic98
But i dont think its unfair to expect Springer to spend time in the DL. Hes a CF on turf. That will wear you down too even if he slides to RF in the future. I expected Tulo to slide from SS at one point too given concerns i had with him on turf. Also expected him to DH a lot (which is why i was annoyed we took morales at the time) as a way to mitigate that.
Hes drafted great players since 2017 lol. If you take away martin (who was kinda a miracle), his draft record has been good.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
I’ll wait to see them perform in the ML. Hoping for the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ
If you mean great as in great prospects, then theres no question hes done well. If you mean great as in great ML, then sure you have a vase but thats tricky cuz its moreso up to the players than anything if they do well in the majors.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
Defensive much? I wonder why...Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
Because you’re so predictable.Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3
TBH, you been a naysayer and dooms day prophet since the day these guys took over. Never even willing to give them a chance. You are complaining right now that they overpaid. But if they didn't overpay, they don't land the big fish. Why not give kudos to them for being putting themselves in a position to overpay for a free agent and for recognizing that they needed to overpay to seal the deal?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
Also, they have built the contender. The rebuild is over. Now it's time to put the finishing touches on it.
And here is evidence of exactly what I'm talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
When you say that anyone can build a farm when not trying to win, there's 15-20 clubs whose drafting and development proves your point is wrong.
Tzatziki Brigade!!! ASSEMBLE!
I respectfully disagree. In 8 years, JP had his 3 best seasons as GM with 87, 86, 86 wins hardly awe inspiring results. Terrible free agent signings, AJ Burnett, BJ Ryan, Cory Koskie, Frank Thomas. Drafting was exceptionally poor, all in all JP was a massive failure.Quote:
Originally Posted by RR Cool Jay
He might have had 3 at most, and that's debatable, go back and look at his results.Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_noodles
Look at the above posts, maybe could have been 3 times but 87, 86, 86 win totals were his best 3 seasons. The other 5 years had no chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ
I’m not sure what you’re looking at. I’m saying if the playoff structure was 8 teams during Riccardi’s tenure they would have made the playoffs. It’s actually very easy to look up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasky05
As mike said, if there were 8 team playoffs druing Ricardis time he would be in the playffs 6/8 times. Granted most would probably be 1st or 2nd round exits given how stacked the Yankees and Red Sox were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasky05
No he wouldn't have made the playoffs 6 times. His best 3 years were 87, 86, 86 for wins, so he might have had a chance to qualify maybe 3 times, but the win totals are iffy at best. Then he went 83 wins and less every other season, no chance in hell 83 wins would make the play-offs, not sure where you're getting your info from or how you think 83 wins is playoff qualifying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ
Ricciardi worked for Billy Beane and part of his hire was that he convinced Jays brass that he could build a winner using moneyball that he learned working for Beane. That didn't work out very well. I posted previously a news article detailing how bad he was as the Jays GM. You should read it, google some more if you're not convinced but Ricciardi was NOT a good GM.
Check winning %Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasky05
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasky05
I think theres a misunderstanding here.
Under the 8 man playoff rules, the top 2 division leaders automatically get in. Them the next 2 teams with the best record get it. Under those rules, the Jays make the playoffs 6 times I believe.
Im not saying Ricardi was a good or not a good gm. I was just saying that some achievements are very circumstantial.
I did he was under .500 as GM of the JaysQuote:
Originally Posted by hanton
I meant with regards to making the expanded play-offsQuote:
Originally Posted by Sasky05