+20m option year so potentially 2 years of FA. Cost certainty is vital for a small market team as well. On top of marrying the players to the team. They’re all more invested in the teams success and the city. Baseball is pretty damn psychological.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ
Yes please.Quote:
Originally Posted by hanton
Well to play devil's advocate he traded for guys like Josh Johnson, Jose Reyes and RA Dickey. I get it, he's a good GM but I don't think he's some sort of messiah.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
I don't think he really has a track record of signing multiple players on his roster to 6-8 year deals and but I could be wrong. Strider could be something but he's also a guy that has a total of just over 200IP between college and the pros. That's not a lot and he barely bought out any FA years. Strider could be a gem...I hope he is and he has a nice easy delivery but pitchers flame out and even more get TJ surgery and are out for a year as well. A lot of risk signing a guy with such a short track record.
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I remember off season 2012 was very exciting for Jays fans. Then 2013 fell apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Powders
Yes that was the season that I stopped buying the hype and started trusting my own analysis more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie
He sure does. 2015 is a perfect example.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
Your poor butt. Glad to see you miss him too though.Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3
No need to get testy. I was agreeing with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
Testy? I haven’t seen any valid points that disagree with anything I’ve said. Snarky maybe, but certainly not testy. Validated if anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3
You're not very good at reading thenQuote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
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Valid my friend. Valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Powders
Simmer down there, tootz.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
You get like this when I’m right. Validated.Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3
But you're not right. Many of your points have been counteredQuote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
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That kukchi is still on the roster? Ok win for you I guess lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Powders
Sharing counter opinions is not disproving me btw lol. It’s called a conversation but this isn’t islam and I’m not a woman. Your words do not count for more than mine unless backed by something valid.
There you go with your hypothetical facts again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
You get like this when I'm right. Validated.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
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Been waiting for you to tell me what you’re right about. You haven’t really made any points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Powders
Sure he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
If Mariners upset the Astros does that make Atkins better?
In my opinion no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie
Not sure there is much to discuss at this point.
Ranking GM’s is an exercise best when careers are over.
What is the objective measure to we want to see. Wins per games played? Playoff games compared to seasons under contract? How far a GM has take a team into the playoffs?
The latter would have me believe that this conversation remains premature years later
This debate is becoming closer and closer as the years go on.
AA gets credit for Vlad Jr
But Bo, Kirk, Esp, Alek (even though he's had a rough start) were all players drafted by this regime.
What's even another swing factor is it's been a long a time when the Jays have been a m8ultiple 90+ game winner.
Overall AA is the better exec, but that's more on what he did with the Braves than the Jays. AA had some very big hits, but his misses were also big. (the Dickey trade, even though Thor is not who he was anymore, AA probably vastly misjudged RA's over reliance on the Knuckleballer moving forwards).
The Tulo trade was also pretty much a bad one, even though it looked great from the start.
AA's best moves ultimately were done way earlier than the trades that got the Jays finally to the post season. And the Jays were pretty much a flash in the pan.
Still atm, as a Jays GM, AA is still on top because his Jays had more post season success, but the gap is narrowing by the year.
I'd say the order currently is
Glilick
AA
Ross Atkins
JP
Gord Ash
As soon as atkins wins a division or gets further in the playoffs, it’s his. For now, I agree.
I think if AA didn't hit on EE and Joey Bats he'd have more success on the Jays.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
As great as those 2 were, they weren't HoF good and were already in their age 26 season thus the clock to get a contender was already ticking.
The immediacy also meant that AA got to pick lower in the draft.
Basically higher floor but lower ceiling.
100% I was thinking the same thing but didn’t want to jibberjabber on about it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampirate
Atkins has had the time to slow roll things and build it properly. AA came in with that mindset, but he had to pivot pretty quickly. Their contracts were too good to ignore.
What will be telling is how they handle Vlad Jr and Bo moving forwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
The Jays have never had that guy that you instantly think of his team when he does his HoF speech.
Halladay had a chance, but our FO was weak at the time.
Here's hoping one of Vlad Jr or Bo Bichette are lifers and inducted to the HoF as a jay at some point.
There is something to be said about having an Miggy on your team, even in his 38-40 age, even with a huge contract, as he was there all those years.
Atkins passed AA last year considering he's been here longer but nothing to write home about after last year's playoffs. But we are in a good position so hopefully more success this year.
Miggy played his first 6 seasons or so on a different club, let's hope we don't get the same result.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampirate
If Bo leads the league in hits for the 3rd straight year, he's already looking at elite company.
Jays prolly don't make the playoffs in 2015 without that Tulo trade. Reyes was hurting the Jays defensively on a team that was a juggernaut on offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampirate
Yeah we were out of the playoffs and at .500 at the time of the trade. Also we gave up nothing but Rogers money.Quote:
Originally Posted by FLeays
Honestly, I don’t understand why people hate on that trade. Not my money. Atkins was never going to be able to sustain that team regardless of if he had another 20m to work with.
Yes, 5th in the East is a great position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ
lol yeah and tenure doesn’t mean anything if nothing is accomplished. Gonna be interesting when Vlad/Bo bend Atkins over in contract negotiations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiderdan22
So far Atkins struggles have included trades, asset management, extensions, and PR.
Strengths have been draft. I almost listed FA as a strength, but he’s just bidding like 50m more than the next team. They aren’t like great value FA signings, he’s just playing them slightly more than market value.
I would say FA is a strength over the draft. Many of their good prospects were through IFA spending. The FA track record is quite good. Ryu, Springer, Semien, Gausman, Bassitt, Garcia, Kiermaier, Belt. The Ryu injury is tough (and predicted), but overall it is a strong track record compared to what most teams get out of FA.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
I wouldn't call this FO's drafting a strength at all. Manoah early first round. Bichette 2nd round a long time back. Baseball drafts have had a ton of misses, but there are very few strong picks I can point too. Hopefully Tiedemann gets healthy and going. The inability to draft and develop pitchers is a problem.
If you pull an mlb player from each draft then you’re good at drafting. He’s close to that, and manoah and teid could really tip the scales imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by pebloemer
And this is someone who doesn’t give the credit for brichette.
But yeah the more I think of it, the draft record hasn’t been that great. When he has hit they’ve been good players though. I was lumping IFA with drafting, but your right the IFA have been good.
Anyone know who our IFA guy is? Hope he sticks around. This has to be Atkins last year as GM unless things turn around.
not even the draft, show me a StriderQuote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
Like a manoah or teidman?Quote:
Originally Posted by hanton
Look guys, I’m not here to defend Atkins and it’s a very uncomfortable position for me to be in hahahaha.
But his drafting has been fine. It’s not the reason the team is struggling. He gets a B- minimum for sure.
That being said, I like trades/asset management/extensions as a better gauge for the success of a GM because those things go directly through him. Atkins has been benefitting from having a stellar amateur scouting department in both NA and internationally, that has been in place since 2012.
Last place in the division, most money we have ever had on the books? (I might be wrong about that). Big extensions coming up, which has clearly been a weakness of atkins’.
Time to move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongInc.
I know you're not
Strider was taken in 4th round, you or I could have selected Manoah and I don't watn to go back and the scouting department - Atkins is in charge fix it if it's not working
I just go back and look at all the drafts, 7 drafts and we have nothing to show for it except Manoah and Bo? how can this be