After 5 Years Is Ross Atkins the 2nd Best GM in Blue Jays History?

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Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

At the time he was starting as the president so he would be the one steering the direction of where we were to go. You tend to be less hands on once you find a guy who has the same mindset as you do. Which I probably why AA left since they probably didn't have the same way of thinking.


It actually more or less proves that Price would never have been on the Blue Jays. Unless AA had overriding authority over Shapiro and ownership, AA didnt have final authority to make that decision. At the very least, if he did resign Price, then it would have been in collaboration with Shapiro as has been mentioned here (which disproves the idea that AA should be held solely responsible for a hypothetical that wasnt going to happen).

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Nope. Shapiro's job has always been more on the business side of things. It's exactly why Dombrowski rejected the job before Shapiro was hired. Because he'd have little to no say on player moves.

AA had full autonomy which ended up being terrible for the club. He was exciting but he was reckless. He just left a hero before he could die a villain. If he ended up signing Price then the team would be way worse off now.

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Originally Posted by mike_noodles

This is true. There’s a lot of voices in the room. Shapiro does a lot less than people think.

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His main job is the business side of things. Stadium upgrades, HPD, actually building a player development department etc.

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Originally Posted by Vampirate

Acquiring Price was one of AA's finest moves, point blank, if that move doesn't happen, the Jays would still hold the record for the longest MLB playoff drought. Price was pitched like a true Ace when he got to the Jays.

Letting go of Price was also a great move.

In the RS the guy was great, but his PO performances were not.

He was a guy who could help you take that next step, but not the guy who could take you a step further.

A lot of the team aside from Josh was about to go on a serious decline do to age.

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Think it was more "we dont have enough budget to fill all holes" and letting him go.

As Shapiro mentioned, we didnt have the budget to sign Price given we lacked SP and we had no depth in AAA so we had to spread the money around. There was no scenario we would have signed him regardless of who was GM unless people make assptions like the GM has overriding factor over owenrship/president. Hard to also imagine your boss not giving the okay when you about to sign the biggest contract for a pitcher in history at the time.

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Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3

His main job is the business side of things. Stadium upgrades, HPD, actually building a player development department etc.

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I absolutely agree. He's got way too much time invested in those things to be concerned with the day to day roster moves. Now, they have said that he signs off on everything, just like a lot businesses. But that's what the rest of the team is for, they do all the work, make the recommendations and he signs off. It's not so much micro managing as it is covering his own ***.

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Originally Posted by mike_noodles

I absolutely agree. He's got way too much time invested in those things to be concerned with the day to day roster moves. Now, they have said that he signs off on everything, just like a lot businesses. But that's what the rest of the team is for, they do all the work, make the recommendations and he signs off. It's not so much micro managing as it is covering his own ***.

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So I guess the discussion is would he have signed off on it knowing Rogers said they had a budget? Or wpuld he have covered his *** and told Alex to find a different approach?

I would assume the latter. I dont think he has direct discussions in day to day but hes the one steering the direction in where we should be goong. So he was telling Lacava and Atkins this is the approach we should take. And its Atkins/Lacavas job to do the gritty work to get to the direction Shapiro wanted them to go

Although I cheered the trade at the time, Tulo gave us 238 games at a cost of $98M. This may be the worst trade of AA's tenure. He finally came off the books in 2020, (although we have a small deferred payment of $5M from 2019 payable to 2034).

The Blue Jays decided to DFA him just prior to the 2019 season, eating roughly $38 million dollars in salary with his player option being bought out in 2 x $2 million dollar installments on July 1, 2021, and 2022. Additionally, $5 million from the 2019 season is deferred and gains three percent interest, payable on January 1st in equal installments from 2025-2034, meaning the Blue Jays will still be paying him, albeit smaller amounts, for quite some time.

Here's some thoughts on our roster construction going forward after this season. For position players we have 5 years of control for Kirk, Espinal, Valera and Springer, 4 years for Vlad, Biggio, Mcguire and Bo, 3 years for LGJ and Jansen, 2 years for Teo and Grich. On the pitching side we have 6 years for Manoah, (I think), Pearson and Merriweather 5 years, Romano 4 years, Borucki, Richards and Mayza 3 years, Cimber, A J Cole and Ryu 2 years, Berrios and strips 1 year. This says to me we have a great roster construct with a lot of control and flexibility moving forward.

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Originally Posted by Sasky05

Although I cheered the trade at the time, Tulo gave us 238 games at a cost of $98M. This may be the worst trade of AA's tenure. He finally came off the books in 2020, (although we have a small deferred payment of $5M from 2019 payable to 2034).

The Blue Jays decided to DFA him just prior to the 2019 season, eating roughly $38 million dollars in salary with his player option being bought out in 2 x $2 million dollar installments on July 1, 2021, and 2022. Additionally, $5 million from the 2019 season is deferred and gains three percent interest, payable on January 1st in equal installments from 2025-2034, meaning the Blue Jays will still be paying him, albeit smaller amounts, for quite some time.

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They could probably generate 7% returns on the savings so smart move to defer the installments.

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Originally Posted by Sasky05

Although I cheered the trade at the time, Tulo gave us 238 games at a cost of $98M. This may be the worst trade of AA's tenure. He finally came off the books in 2020, (although we have a small deferred payment of $5M from 2019 payable to 2034).

The Blue Jays decided to DFA him just prior to the 2019 season, eating roughly $38 million dollars in salary with his player option being bought out in 2 x $2 million dollar installments on July 1, 2021, and 2022. Additionally, $5 million from the 2019 season is deferred and gains three percent interest, payable on January 1st in equal installments from 2025-2034, meaning the Blue Jays will still be paying him, albeit smaller amounts, for quite some time.

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I don’t give AF about Rogers money. That was the most exciting baseball experience of my life and I regret nothing.

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Originally Posted by Sasky05

Here's some thoughts on our roster construction going forward after this season. For position players we have 5 years of control for Kirk, Espinal, Valera and Springer, 4 years for Vlad, Biggio, Mcguire and Bo, 3 years for LGJ and Jansen, 2 years for Teo and Grich. On the pitching side we have 6 years for Manoah, (I think), Pearson and Merriweather 5 years, Romano 4 years, Borucki, Richards and Mayza 3 years, Cimber, A J Cole and Ryu 2 years, Berrios and strips 1 year. This says to me we have a great roster construct with a lot of control and flexibility moving forward.

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Flexibility exists if you are willing to trade players away when they get expensive. Time will tell, but we are probably already feeling the budget crunch as early as this offseason.

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Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

They could probably generate 7% returns on the savings so smart move to defer the installments.

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Just don’t Mets it.

The math at the time worked out so that the Mets would have been ahead.

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Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

The math at the time worked out so that the Mets would have been ahead.

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Oh I know. That’s the flaw in predictive models and deferring money like that. Tulo’s small deferral isn’t a big deal.

N/m

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Originally Posted by ChongInc.

Oh I know. That’s the flaw in predictive models and deferring money like that. Tulo’s small deferral isn’t a big deal.

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Well you still dont want to be in that situation to begin with lkl so somewhat a big deal. But minimized if you make the accounting works.