After 5 Years Is Ross Atkins the 2nd Best GM in Blue Jays History?

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01-28-2021, 01:50 PM
mike_noodles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasky05

No he wouldn't have made the playoffs 6 times. His best 3 years were 87, 86, 86 for wins, so he might have had a chance to qualify maybe 3 times, but the win totals are iffy at best. Then he went 83 wins and less every other season, no chance in hell 83 wins would make the play-offs, not sure where you're getting your info from or how you think 83 wins is playoff qualifying.

Ricciardi worked for Billy Beane and part of his hire was that he convinced Jays brass that he could build a winner using moneyball that he learned working for Beane. That didn't work out very well. I posted previously a news article detailing how bad he was as the Jays GM. You should read it, google some more if you're not convinced but Ricciardi was NOT a good GM.

I’m looking right now. 2002. Jays would have been wildcard #2 with 78 wins. Oak and Ana from West. Min and a Chi from Central. NY and Bos from East. Sea and Tor as wildcards. Toronto also finished that year 8th in the AL if you want to look at it from that angle.
01-28-2021, 02:22 PM
Chaotic98

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_noodles

I’m looking right now. 2002. Jays would have been wildcard #2 with 78 wins. Oak and Ana from West. Min and a Chi from Central. NY and Bos from East. Sea and Tor as wildcards. Toronto also finished that year 8th in the AL if you want to look at it from that angle.

Kinda pointless exercise IMO. There weren't 8 teams in the playoffs those years. The teams were being constructed with the knowledge they needed to be top at least 4 in the AL (2nd WC wasn't added yet either). They weren't top 4.

In 2020, Atkins knew there would be 8 teams last year. Signed FAs accordingly. Traded at the deadline for a bunch of pitchers and an INF to get/maintain at least an 8th spot.

Only AA (2015) and Atkins (2016, 2020) were able to get this team into the playoff in the past 20 years within MLBs playoff rules. Atkins twice.
01-28-2021, 02:26 PM
mike_noodles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaotic98

Kinda pointless exercise IMO. There weren't 8 teams in the playoffs those years. The teams were being constructed with the knowledge they needed to be top at least 4 in the AL (2nd WC wasn't added yet either). They weren't top 4.

In 2020, Atkins knew there would be 8 teams last year. Signed FAs accordingly. Traded at the deadline for a bunch of pitchers and an INF to get/maintain at least an 8th spot.

Only AA (2015) and Atkins (2016, 2020) were able to get this team into the playoff in the past 20 years within MLBs playoff rules. Atkins twice.

I agree. If JP is hovering at the bottom of the playoffs he likely makes much different moves too.

I’m also not defending the guy. I disliked him as our GM.
01-28-2021, 03:25 PM
Raps18-19 Champ

I think that most moves last offseason were already made before the 8 team playoffs.
01-28-2021, 04:23 PM
R. Johnson#3

Man, people call me out for looking back and criticizing AA's record in comparison to Atkins. Meanwhile you have people here reaching back to JP in order to try and dismiss the accomplishments of the great Ross Atkins. Funny how that works lol.
01-28-2021, 04:33 PM
Chaotic98

Quote:

Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3

Man, people call me out for looking back and criticizing AA's record in comparison to Atkins. Meanwhile you have people here reaching back to JP in order to try and dismiss the accomplishments of the great Ross Atkins. Funny how that works lol.

I could reach back to the late 80s early 90's and say some of those teams would have made a 5-8 team playoff. But that would be disrespectful to AA, Atkins and especially Gillick.
01-28-2021, 04:35 PM
Chaotic98

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

I think that most moves last offseason were already made before the 8 team playoffs.

By winter meetings there was league talk about an NL DH, expanded playoffs, extra roster spot, compacted schedule and 7 innings double headers to name a few, which is why that FA also took a long time.
01-28-2021, 04:48 PM
R. Johnson#3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaotic98

I could reach back to the late 80s early 90's and say some of those teams would have made a 5-8 team playoff. But that would be disrespectful to AA, Atkins and especially Gillick.

Don't forget Gord Ash!

Funny how you never hear any NBA fans trying to dismiss the success of the 90's teams in comparison to the 80's. Playoffs went from 12 to 16 in the 80's. I guess some people are just petty, eh?
01-28-2021, 05:23 PM
mike_noodles

Quote:

Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3

Man, people call me out for looking back and criticizing AA's record in comparison to Atkins. Meanwhile you have people here reaching back to JP in order to try and dismiss the accomplishments of the great Ross Atkins. Funny how that works lol.

It’s not that. It’s that we have to adjust the parameters and value of making the playoffs one time in 2020 vs the 2000s. And of course people are reaching back. The thread is about “all time” after all.
01-28-2021, 05:35 PM
Raps18-19 Champ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaotic98

By winter meetings there was league talk about an NL DH, expanded playoffs, extra roster spot, compacted schedule and 7 innings double headers to name a few, which is why that FA also took a long time.

Ah ok. I didnt realize that those talks were realistic during winter meetings. We had the pandemic in March 2020 so most moves should have been done by then and ST was probably underway or about to be.
01-28-2021, 05:39 PM
Raps18-19 Champ

I believe majority of NBA fans adjust for things like shot clock era, hand checking, zone defense, 3 point line, pace of play, Bill Russell winning 11 rings during an 11 team league, etc so I dont think its out of the norm to discuss the different circumstances for Jays GM.

Im pretty sure I cant go a year without hearing "Lebron isnt averaging 30PPG if we have hand checking".
01-28-2021, 05:57 PM
R. Johnson#3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

I believe majority of NBA fans adjust for things like shot clock era, hand checking, zone defense, 3 point line, pace of play, Bill Russell winning 11 rings during an 11 team league, etc so I dont think its out of the norm to discuss the different circumstances for Jays GM.

Im pretty sure I cant go a year without hearing "Lebron isnt averaging 30PPG if we have hand checking".

We're talking about teams making the playoffs. Not rule changes. Your correlation makes no sense.
01-28-2021, 06:04 PM
Raps18-19 Champ

The rules changed to make it easier to do something. Ie making the playoffs.
01-28-2021, 06:24 PM
R. Johnson#3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ

The rules changed to make it easier to do something. Ie making the playoffs.

Yes but we have an example of the playoffs expanding in the MLB and playoffs expanding in the NBA. There's no need to expand the conversation beyond that. Doing so would be sort of a diversion don't you think?
01-28-2021, 06:41 PM
Raps18-19 Champ

Quote:

Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3

Yes but we have an example of the playoffs expanding in the MLB and playoffs expanding in the NBA. There's no need to expand the conversation beyond that. Doing so would be sort of a diversion don't you think?

Well I did give my opinion on NBA playoffs expansion as well.

I dont think its out of place to discuss other rule changes either.

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