After 5 Years Is Ross Atkins the 2nd Best GM in Blue Jays History?

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08-31-2021, 11:32 AM
Kenny Powders

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_noodles

He says that as if Atkins was a GM somewhere else. It’s really blind hatred. Nobody (and The Rock means nobody) knows if Atkins can close. This is a first for him.

And no job was ever finished in Cleveland, unless I was in a coma for a year and they won a title. But I do agree, Dan has one (and only one) angle when he posts

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08-31-2021, 01:53 PM
Spiderdan22

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_noodles

He says that as if Atkins was a GM somewhere else. It’s really blind hatred. Nobody (and The Rock means nobody) knows if Atkins can close. This is a first for him.

And what is the expectation anyways? If you have a team like the Dodgers who can get there every year, but rarely win the WS, would you fire a GM then? Many people think that just being in the final 4 is the goal because the rest relies on luck (injuries, hot streaks, etc). Or would Toronto call for his head if we made it to the ALCS perennially but can’t get over the hump?

No but I think we can start calling for Shatkins head soon as we have the almost the exact same winning percentage and we did last year (533 to 531). The Yankees and Boston have both improved when we have not. Tampa hasn't won quite as much but the still are playing 630 ball, so they Jays have a huge hill to climb just to sniff the playoffs.

EVERYTHING I said would happen this year did happen. Ryu is starting to become a liability. We will be a 500ish team and good for 4th in the East. Pearson being fragile would make him a bust. Merryweather would not play. Springer would be hurt almost as much as he plays. A large reason for this is Shatkins screwing the pooch in 2017 with all those C specs he got with "great potential". Yes there are some exciting budding superstars on this team. But right now the 2022 Jays need a new bullpen, will need to replace Ray and Semien, a 3B, two TORPs, and a new manager. And yes, I know that Atkins is a first time GM. But everything he does is micro managed by Shapiro, who sucked in Cleveland. And lastly, how's that run big deferential stat working out?
08-31-2021, 02:45 PM
hanton

Mntoyo was hired to be fired (one day). escape goat as they say
08-31-2021, 03:00 PM
ChongInc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_noodles

He says that as if Atkins was a GM somewhere else. It’s really blind hatred. Nobody (and The Rock means nobody) knows if Atkins can close. This is a first for him.

And what is the expectation anyways? If you have a team like the Dodgers who can get there every year, but rarely win the WS, would you fire a GM then? Many people think that just being in the final 4 is the goal because the rest relies on luck (injuries, hot streaks, etc). Or would Toronto call for his head if we made it to the ALCS perennially but can’t get over the hump?

The line for me is making the playoffs and winning the division. Playoffs are a crap shoot.
08-31-2021, 04:38 PM
mike_noodles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiderdan22

No but I think we can start calling for Shatkins head soon as we have the almost the exact same winning percentage and we did last year (533 to 531). The Yankees and Boston have both improved when we have not. Tampa hasn't won quite as much but the still are playing 630 ball, so they Jays have a huge hill to climb just to sniff the playoffs.

EVERYTHING I said would happen this year did happen. Ryu is starting to become a liability. We will be a 500ish team and good for 4th in the East. Pearson being fragile would make him a bust. Merryweather would not play. Springer would be hurt almost as much as he plays. A large reason for this is Shatkins screwing the pooch in 2017 with all those C specs he got with "great potential". Yes there are some exciting budding superstars on this team. But right now the 2022 Jays need a new bullpen, will need to replace Ray and Semien, a 3B, two TORPs, and a new manager. And yes, I know that Atkins is a first time GM. But everything he does is micro managed by Shapiro, who sucked in Cleveland. And lastly, how's that run big deferential stat working out?

Except, you're wrong even here, saying you're right.
08-31-2021, 04:40 PM
mike_noodles

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChongInc.

The line for me is making the playoffs and winning the division. Playoffs are a crap shoot.

And that's fair, and I agree. I definitely agree with the idea that if we aren't in next year, there should be some heat somewhere, including both Atkins and Montoyo.
08-31-2021, 05:00 PM
ChongInc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_noodles

And that's fair, and I agree. I definitely agree with the idea that if we aren't in next year, there should be some heat somewhere, including both Atkins and Montoyo.

I didn’t even consider it until you guys brought it up, but I think Atkins may keep montoyo as a safety net. If we miss the playoffs again he fires montoyo and secures himself another year of attempting to make the playoffs.

I think if we had a more self assured GM with a good track record then montoyo would be gone this offseason 100%.
08-31-2021, 05:01 PM
ChongInc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_noodles

Except, you're wrong even here, saying you're right.

If you cut through the drama and look at the facts, he is right about some big things here. Hard to see Atkins pulling off all those prerequisites to making this team a contender in 1 offseason.
08-31-2021, 07:14 PM
Spiderdan22

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_noodles

Except, you're wrong even here, saying you're right.

Enlighten me...
09-01-2021, 04:28 PM
LechWalesa

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChongInc.

I didn’t even consider it until you guys brought it up, but I think Atkins may keep montoyo as a safety net. If we miss the playoffs again he fires montoyo and secures himself another year of attempting to make the playoffs.

I think if we had a more self assured GM with a good track record then montoyo would be gone this offseason 100%.

Assuming we miss the playoffs, Montoyo needs to go in the offseason.
09-02-2021, 05:30 AM
Kenny Powders

Quote:

Originally Posted by LechWalesa

Assuming we miss the playoffs, Montoyo needs to go in the offseason.

I agree. I feel they will give him a short leash next season though.

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09-03-2021, 11:34 AM
LechWalesa

I don't see the point in waiting. Ross just re-upped with a five year deal. I'm positive that alone gives him 2-3 years to get us into the postseason
09-03-2021, 04:21 PM
ChongInc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LechWalesa

I don't see the point in waiting. Ross just re-upped with a five year deal. I'm positive that alone gives him 2-3 years to get us into the postseason

I think the missteps he’s made along the way will be highlighted if he misses the playoffs again. Wing cures all, but without it people will look again how we got here.
09-03-2021, 09:25 PM
Raps18-19 Champ

I thought Ross' contract expires before this season and this was his 1st year. Or was that Shapiro?
09-08-2021, 04:29 PM
Vampirate

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChongInc.

I think the missteps he’s made along the way will be highlighted if he misses the playoffs again. Wing cures all, but without it people will look again how we got here.

This is kinda silly though because they didn't really miss the post season before.

They made the playoffs after AA left then started to rebuild and then made the playoffs again (technically) last year. (even though yes, they really didn't earn it, just kinda were in a fortunate position).

Both Sharp and Ross are signed for the long haul.

I think this season while the jays are trending upwards there are not sky high expectations, however next season and then on will tell us how things will play out as there will be higher expectations and people will be expecting to make the playoffs, especially with the moves most recently made.

If the Jays flounder around .500 like so many Jays teams have post Gillick then yeah.

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