Yep. Deep pockets. All good for Mets and NYC. No tears for Wilpon. Met fans deserve better.Quote:
Originally Posted by metswon69
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Yep. Deep pockets. All good for Mets and NYC. No tears for Wilpon. Met fans deserve better.Quote:
Originally Posted by metswon69
And what makes you so sure that sevy will be back to pitching like he did in 17 right out of the gate ?!? That is just having unrealistic expectations . I mean did Monty pitch like he did in 17 and part of 18 when he came back last season ? No he didn’t . In fact he did worse . And I wasn’t talking about any top shelf free agent in particular just saying it would be unrealistic to expect both sevy and German to pitch like one when they haven’t pitched in over a year . And btw you forgot about how the killer b’s failed too and that was less than 10 years ago .Quote:
Originally Posted by dayners81
I think this deserves it's own thread. I will move it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJO34
Jorge as usual, you are missing the crux of the argument in advancing your own narrative.
German will have some rust, Sevy will take time to get up to speed. I don't believe anyone has suggested otherwise. My point, the combo of the two, performing well, returned to the rotation is akin to grabbing a top shelf FA pitcher. You can question their effectiveness coming off the lay off. But recent history (Gray, Happ) suggests not every FA pitcher is a HR or equipped to pitch in NYC even without injury or long layoff. There are no guarantees.
Why is it so hard to admit they are an upgrade and welcome addition? They add not detract from the depth.
Would I love a top shelf #2 to slot behind Cole at seasons start. Hell yeah. Are they available and attainable? Aside from a handful are they worth the cost? Should Sevy return to form (I expect he will) is he as good a #2 as most? With German add to mix is the rotation better than last season? I think it is. I also think the kids will get an opportunity to step up and shine.
I think the point here is:Quote:
Originally Posted by dayners81
1. Sevy actually looked like a true ace back in 2017 and 2018. But, that was a long time ago. We have no clue if he will ever come close to that again and we probably won't know what he has until at least 2023 when he is far enough removed from TJ and is able to get his stamina back. We have to stop viewing him as a savior. IMO, anything we get from him over the next 2 years is a bonus.
2. German is not a savior either. He hasn't pitched in a year and just got destroyed in the Dominican League. The experience driving the enthusiasm is 143 IP in 27 games with an ERA 4.03. That doesn't scream TORP to me.
3. Who was available this year? Bauer (you have to count him because we can afford him if we want to), Lynne, Snell, Gray, Castillo, Darvish, Sanchez. I think all of those guys would be upgrades.
4. Most importantly, even for the most enthusiastic observer, this window is open 2 more years - tops. Our bullpen starts to fall apart. We have to start paying most of our position players. Now is not the time to be rolling with the youngster unless the plan is to reboot.
This has exactly been my point all along . And it is a realistic view point as well. And I have only been talking about what to expect this seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by Jones
Again to expect sevy to return to form right out of the gate makes no sense when everyone knows it takes atleast 2 YEARS for a pitcher to get back to what they were once were before the TJ surgery . Look at Monty , it’s almost 2 years since his TJ and he still isn’t 100% back to what he was before . Why is it so hard for you to admit that you don’t know what to expect from sevy? Why is it so hard to admit the rotation after cole is at the very least questionable ? And I won’t admit they are an upgrade until after I see what we get from them this season . Until then all I see is a group of question marks after cole .Quote:
Originally Posted by drt1010
What part of "Sevy will take time to get up to speed" did you not understand.
This argument boils down to a glass half full vs half empty. We don't know what to expect from Sevy. I expect a recovery and return to form. You don't. You question his contribution. No reason German couldn't be a contributor this season. You disagree.
Given your perspective anyone and everyone is a question mark. Do high priced FA's come with money back guarantees? If so I think the Yankees are due a rebate from Gray and Happ, to name the most recent.
Imo the rotation will be better with the addition of Sevy and German, their past performance a strong indicator. AGAIN Sevy will need time and German must knock off the rust and reacclimate. I wouldn't take his winter ball performance as indicative. If it were ST I think your claim may have more merit. In fact I think winter ball actually allows him to knock off the rust, face live hitters, build arm strength ect., in anticipation of ST.
You also said that sevy and German would be the equivalent of a top shelf free agent this season . That is more than just seeing things with a glass half full . That is really over estimating them . And about 20 innings in winter ball against sub par hitters for the most part is hardly enough time to build up any arm strength and shake off rust . Especially when German showed signs of fatigue during his one season as a starter . He didn’t even throw 140 innings as a starter that year . I am not looking at things from a half glass empty perspective I am look at REALITY . And reality says to not expect one guy who is still coming back from TJ surgery to suddenly come back to pre surgery form in his first season back in the rotation . And not to expect another guy who wasn’t a number 2 starter two years ago to suddenly pitch like a number 2 starter behind cole this season . Especially a guy who hasn’t pitched in the mlb in over a year . Like you said it takes time to come back to form and shake off the rust . In sevy’s case that time is longer than a dozen starts with restrictions and limitations during this season . And that is barring any setbacks as well .Quote:
Originally Posted by drt1010
That is your reality. That is how you choose to construct it. There is no single reality or truth independent of our own personal construction. We perceive and construct, reality does not exist independent of that process. You choose to see it as half empty.
My construction is a bit different.
Ahem. As for the bolded, consider to whom you speakQuote:
Originally Posted by drt1010
It applies there too...
He may not get the phrase
While i agree it was a long time ago that Sevy was fully healthy when he came back last yr he was pretty dominate in his 3 starts, even with diminished stuff. I absolutely agree with you that ideally whatever we get from Sevy next yr would be a bonus or like a trade deadline pickup. These are hardly ideal times for the Yanks. They have a very limited budget and they seem likely to spend that money on DJ or finding a stop gap to replace him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones
Realistically like it or not they are very likely to be counting on Sevy to be there number 2 when he comes back. I don't think anyone is viewing German as a savior either. The thing is while in an ideal yr we would have traded for Lindor and Carassco or gotten Darvish or Lynn but Hal obviously isn't spending like that this yr. Hopefully there is enough in the budget that they can get a Kluber or bring back Tanaka or atleast bring in some kind of rotation help but that just doesn't seem very likely.
From Hal's perspective Sevy has shown he is at very least capable of being a descent #2 and German proved to be atleast a capable mid rotation starter. Monty looks like a capable mid rotation starter and they have an absolute ton of arm talent on the verge of being MLB. Is it what we want as fans, probably not but if Hal is really stuck on not spending that is going to be the reality of what our rotation is going to look like.
We have got to do something so this annual starting pitching search can stop. I don't see Hal wanting any part of adding another 30m dollar a yr starter and spending as much on the top 2 spots in the rotation spots as the Rays do for there entire roster or close to it.
Whats separating the Rays, Dodgers, Padres and Braves from everybody else is their development of their prospects. They are developing great young assets and using the surplus to make smart trades to get established veterans but it all starts with good development.
We really need to develop a couple of our own starter so we can quit doing this every yr
Sevy has been a number 2 in the past but this season he won’t pitch enough to be one . Not with all the restrictions and limitations . That alone makes it higly unlikely that he will be the Yankees #2 this season . And what is separating the Yankees from those teams you listed is that the GMs of those teams aren’t hoarding so many of their prospects . They are actually trading a good amount of them . Maybe not their best ones but still they aren’t hoarding like cashman is doing . They aren’t afraid to do trades like the dodgers , Padres , and mets have done in the last year . Then there is the fact that all those teams you listed had to suck for years and longer to get the high enough draft picks to begin with . If you want the Yankees to be like those teams then you should want a rebuild so that the yanks can take high draft picks for a few yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by dayners81
You know Jorge your right. This team sucks. Rotation sucks. The players suck. Management sucks. Ownership sucks. The scouts and coaches suck. Even the ball boys / girls suck.
Count me in the Jorge camp from this day forward. You have convinced me. I am now a convert of the gospel of Yankee suckdom according to Jorge.
Only one question before I drink the Kool aide, why would you spend 15+ hrs a day on a forum for a team you appear to despise? Is there an ulterior reason? Thanks in advance.
I look forward to becoming a proud dues paying member of the Jorge Yankees suck club.
LMAOQuote:
Originally Posted by drt1010
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