This is why they kneel

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Originally Posted by dbroncos78087

I still don't get where people act like the cops have the right to execute you even if you disregard an order. Where exactly does that come from? What happened to not letting people be judge, jury, and executioner?

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It comes down to safety of the cops and that a dead person is cheaper than an injured one.

I do think the police have a reasonable right to protect themselves, I would just rather they err much more on the side of letting them get away than shooting them dead. Particularly in a situation where there is not an immediate risk to other members of the community.

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

Adrenaline negatively affected both the cop and the kid killed by the cop. I think the majority of PSD posters are showing like zero nuance in their opinions on this story. It sucks this kid died but the second he flashed that gun (even though it was an attempt to separate himself from the gun), there was a strong chance the cop would simply see the gun and shoot the suspect. I have zero love for cops but this isn't the situation to be pointing at in terms of cops being violent and/or racist.

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I actually agree with you here and I am just calling out someone "on the other side" not using said nuance. We can go in circles all day about trying to paint this as racist and over the top or trying to blame the 13 year old for every misstep taken like Mr Spock has been doing.

The reality is it is a very nuanced situation and we do need to have discussions about what is expected from cops when they tell you to put your hands up etc. and where the line is about what is acceptable when you do so.

None of this can be done if its a gang banger that deserved it because he turned or the cop is a racist piece of scum. I am just taking the other side of the argument Mr. Spock seems to be by nitpicking every piece possible in relation to what the 13 year old kid did but not at all taking the look into the cops or what should have been done.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

I actually agree with you here and I am just calling out someone "on the other side" not using said nuance. We can go in circles all day about trying to paint this as racist and over the top or trying to blame the 13 year old for every misstep taken like Mr Spock has been doing.

The reality is it is a very nuanced situation and we do need to have discussions about what is expected from cops when they tell you to put your hands up etc. and where the line is about what is acceptable when you do so.

None of this can be done if its a gang banger that deserved it because he turned or the cop is a racist piece of scum. I am just taking the other side of the argument Mr. Spock seems to be by nitpicking every piece possible in relation to what the 13 year old kid did but not at all taking the look into the cops or what should have been done.

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I agree. The problem is even when a kid has been told many times what to do that doesn't mean they will do it in the moment and the adult in the situation needs to make up some of that deficit.

We want every event to fit in a nice simple mold and they seldom do. Not ever cop is a violent racist intent on domination (though some are), and not every person with a gun or drugs who doesn't immediately obey deserves to be shot.

There is no easy solution no question.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

1. The cop may not have known the persons age, that doesn't mean the person doesn't have one. The kid was 13 years old, we know that to be true.

2. He did run first and not comply right away. Is that a death sentence to you where you should be shot at for doing so? I mean the kid turned to face the officer, so we agree he turned to face the cop and show his hands were empty (which they were when he was doing this) as the officer asked him to "show his hands". I did watch the video which is why I am able to discuss the context.

3. I do not live in a culda sac but if your point is that cops act much differently towards people in a culda sac as compared to young kids in the city (if they are not white) and that is why this happened then I guess so be it. That is actually part of the issue many here are pointing out is kids in many other situations wouldn't have to worry about it like they would in "a hard area". We shouldn't have different standards just because they are not in a culda sac.

My point has been if a 13 year old kid doesn't do exactly what you may want that isn't a free right to kill. Do you think it is?

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Omg you are so ****in naive.

It has nothing to do with race. It's about being on a call for gun shots in am area that is known to be a stronghold of the most violent gang in the USA.

Not many calls for gun shots from gang members in ****in bel air believe it or not. Not much of a Latin King presence! Kind of hard to make a side by side comparison.

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Originally Posted by Scoots

I understand the sentiment but the reality is you have no choice but to pay for others mistakes. Your money is taken by force to pay for others mistakes all the time.

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So we should accept this as is because it happens all the time?

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

I actually agree with you here and I am just calling out someone "on the other side" not using said nuance. We can go in circles all day about trying to paint this as racist and over the top or trying to blame the 13 year old for every misstep taken like Mr Spock has been doing.

The reality is it is a very nuanced situation and we do need to have discussions about what is expected from cops when they tell you to put your hands up etc. and where the line is about what is acceptable when you do so.

None of this can be done if its a gang banger that deserved it because he turned or the cop is a racist piece of scum. I am just taking the other side of the argument Mr. Spock seems to be by nitpicking every piece possible in relation to what the 13 year old kid did but not at all taking the look into the cops or what should have been done.

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YOU might need to. Kids that grow up in this area dont. They know what to do when a cop ask for them to stop and put their hands up. This kid made a mistake. It's sad he died so young. But blaming the officer only hurts any chance of police reform and adds credence to GOP talking points.

Please point out where I've been incorrect and lacked nuance please?

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Originally Posted by MRSpock

Omg you are so ****in naive.

It has nothing to do with race. It's about being on a call for gun shots in am area that is known to be a stronghold of the most violent gang in the USA.

Not many calls for gun shots from gang members in ****in bel air believe it or not. Not much of a Latin King presence! Kind of hard to make a side by side comparison.

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I don't think it has to do with race in this instance so we agree. You brought up living in a culda sac as if that would change anything compared to a "hard area" and I was wondering if race also played a part in what you were describing or if it was just based on area. Seems like now you are saying the area should matter if it is known for violence the individuals there should be treated differently is your point now? I am just trying to figure out what any of the nonsense you say means/if it has any sort of actual point.

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Originally Posted by MRSpock

YOU might need to. Kids that grow up in this area dont. They know what to do when a cop ask for them to stop and put their hands up. This kid made a mistake. It's sad he died so young. But blaming the officer only hurts any chance of police reform and adds credence to GOP talking points.

Please point out where I've been incorrect and lacked nuance please?

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YOU are the one assuming this kid knew exactly what he needed to do in a split second of time and blaming him for not acting in that way. I know many kids from many backgrounds and not all of any group know exactly how to act/can follow through in intense situations. I mean seriously you are focusing on the 13 year olds actions with higher expectations than you seem to have for the cop.

The kid did make a mistake, the question is does he deserve to be killed over it because that is what happened. If not then what can we do to prevent situations like this in the future is next step.

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Originally Posted by WES445

So we should accept this as is because it happens all the time?

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No. I was replying to your sentiment that you don't want to pay for other people's mistakes that you don't have a choice as it happens all the time.

Of course you don't have to accept anything, keep on raging against the machine.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

YOU are the one assuming this kid knew exactly what he needed to do in a split second of time and blaming him for not acting in that way. I know many kids from many backgrounds and not all of any group know exactly how to act/can follow through in intense situations. I mean seriously you are focusing on the 13 year olds actions with higher expectations than you seem to have for the cop.

The kid did make a mistake, the question is does he deserve to be killed over it because that is what happened. If not then what can we do to prevent situations like this in the future is next step.

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That not at all what anyone was talking about. Most were clearly trying to point the finger at the cop.

Yes. His actions lead to his death. He made poor decision. He joined a violent gang. He shot at cars. He ran when a cop came to arrest him and turned when in officer told him to stop and hold his hands up.

Is it your position the cop should roll the dice here?

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

I don't think it has to do with race in this instance so we agree. You brought up living in a culda sac as if that would change anything compared to a "hard area" and I was wondering if race also played a part in what you were describing or if it was just based on area. Seems like now you are saying the area should matter if it is known for violence the individuals there should be treated differently is your point now? I am just trying to figure out what any of the nonsense you say means/if it has any sort of actual point.

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Yes a report that a gangbanger is shooting should policed the same everywhere.

You're right Cops should be fearless and ignore reality.

That's not a ridiculously high expectation.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

YOU are the one assuming this kid knew exactly what he needed to do in a split second of time and blaming him for not acting in that way. I know many kids from many backgrounds and not all of any group know exactly how to act/can follow through in intense situations. I mean seriously you are focusing on the 13 year olds actions with higher expectations than you seem to have for the cop.

The kid did make a mistake, the question is does he deserve to be killed over it because that is what happened. If not then what can we do to prevent situations like this in the future is next step.

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bingo

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Originally Posted by MRSpock

That not at all what anyone was talking about. Most were clearly trying to point the finger at the cop.

Yes. His actions lead to his death. He made poor decision. He joined a violent gang. He shot at cars. He ran when a cop came to arrest him and turned when in officer told him to stop and hold his hands up.

Is it your position the cop should roll the dice here?

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You were just talking about it lol, I literally quoted you doing so. I agree others are pointing a finger at the cop but you were doing the opposite at a 13 year old.

The cops action is what directly lead to his death actually, without it this person would still be alive. The cop is using those actions by the teen to excuse his killing of this 13 year old and that is where nuance comes in to see if it was justified.

My position is this is a very nuanced situation and both officers and the public should have an idea of acceptable standards moving forward. I don't think people only focusing on the teens mistakes like yourself or only blaming the cop are helping things at all and are often being ridiculous. As I have said from the start this is a very nuanced situation.

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Originally Posted by MRSpock

Yes a report that a gangbanger is shooting should policed the same everywhere.

You're right Cops should be fearless and ignore reality.

That's not a ridiculously high expectation.

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You seem to be making a lot of jumps to things I never actually said, I am so shocked coming from you that this would happen.

Why don't you randomly start ranting to me about manram while you are at it, seems to be a favorite pass time of yours.

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Originally Posted by MRSpock

That not at all what anyone was talking about. Most were clearly trying to point the finger at the cop.

Yes. His actions lead to his death. He made poor decision. He joined a violent gang. He shot at cars. He ran when a cop came to arrest him and turned when in officer told him to stop and hold his hands up.

Is it your position the cop should roll the dice here?

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Wait a minute, where is the proof that he joined a violent gang and he personally shot at a car. I thought the cops were answering a call of shots fired at cars not catching them in the act.