This is why they kneel

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Originally Posted by Walter_White

"Abolish the police" is not helpful or practical, and it's not even the best option. As I detailed earlier, here are easier and more politically viable options:

--Break up police unions
--Demilitarization
--Overhaul the training regimen for prospective cops
--Federal police oversight, with budget cuts to PDs who violate Constitutional rights of citizens

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Police should be able to unionize the way people in any other profession are allowed to.

Agreed on demilitarization.

Agreed on training overhaul.

Don't agree on budget cuts when a cop behaves wrongly. The budget should be set at what is considered necessary to keep the public safe. Not any more, not any less. A cop acting wrongly would not change what that threshold is and therefore it should not change the budget.

Who's to say that threshold is correct with where it's currently at?

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Originally Posted by hugepatsfan

Police should be able to unionize the way people in any other profession are allowed to.

Agreed on demilitarization.

Agreed on training overhaul.

Don't agree on budget cuts when a cop behaves wrongly. The budget should be set at what is considered necessary to keep the public safe. Not any more, not any less. A cop acting wrongly would not change what that threshold is and therefore it should not change the budget.

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Fair enough.

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Originally Posted by ThomasTomasz

There are some people advocating for them to go away period, which I don't agree with. Most people saying defund the police really want change in how communities are policed, and want a lot of the military grade armament taken away from them, and I can't say I disagree especially with the latter. Aside from SWAT teams or a quick-react team, police don't need to be armed to the teeth in military gear.

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There is a little town not far from me that, last year at a town event they had two armored personnel carriers. I asked the chief why he had them, and he said they were basically free, and he figured if he ever needed to crash through a gate or the front of a house they'd be perfect for it ... of course I asked him and he said they basically only start them to use them for things like the fair. Basically they are useless and just serve to get the department in trouble.

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Originally Posted by hugepatsfan

Police should be able to unionize the way people in any other profession are allowed to.

Agreed on demilitarization.

Agreed on training overhaul.

Don't agree on budget cuts when a cop behaves wrongly. The budget should be set at what is considered necessary to keep the public safe. Not any more, not any less. A cop acting wrongly would not change what that threshold is and therefore it should not change the budget.

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They should be allowed to unionize, but we might need to reset the unions to change the culture of blue above all.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CBJU-5sA...=1qtdc722bg6w3

https://www.instagram.com/p/CBJgYlbA...id=e3m90y345d4

:laugh2:

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Originally Posted by spliff(TONE)

Who's to say that threshold is correct with where it's currently at?

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Let me clarify. When I said "The budget should be set at what is considered necessary to keep the public safe. Not any more, not any less" I meant to imply that evaluating budgets and re-setting was a part of that.

I just don't think budget of the police force should be used as a reward or punishment. Set it at a level that meets community need. That's where it should stay. I don't think individual misconduct should carry a budget consequence for the overall force.

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Originally Posted by Scoots

They should be allowed to unionize, but we might need to reset the unions to change the culture of blue above all.

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Yes I think the culture needs to change. But like in any other profession the police have a right to demand fair pay, proper working conditions, etc. and unions help accomplish all that.

I think as a country we need to understand that police is an extremely honorable line of work but not all people in that line of work are honorable.

The uniform itself shouldn't command the unwavering support and respect and admiration we give it. It's the men and women who put it on and represent the proper values that deserve all that. That needs to be the culture within and outside the police force.

for one, start with not allowing a guy to accumulate 18 conduct issues on his record and still have him not just still on the force, but leading a group on the street

sounds like police unions follow some of the same bad tracks our govt does...where bad apples gain power and too many become jaded to their real purpose

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Originally Posted by hugepatsfan

I just don't think budget of the police force should be used as a reward or punishment. Set it at a level that meets community need. .

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Yup. They need to eliminate or minimize the profit incentive out of the justice system. That's the root of a lot of problems.

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Originally Posted by Scoots

There is a little town not far from me that, last year at a town event they had two armored personnel carriers. I asked the chief why he had them, and he said they were basically free, and he figured if he ever needed to crash through a gate or the front of a house they'd be perfect for it ... of course I asked him and he said they basically only start them to use them for things like the fair. Basically they are useless and just serve to get the department in trouble.

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I've only seen one of those out and about without reason, and I'm in a heavily policed area, and the area I see it is at Washington Redskins games. Not even sure why they would need it there to be completely honest.

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Originally Posted by Walter_White

"Abolish the police" is not helpful or practical, and it's not even the best option. As I detailed earlier, here are easier and more politically viable options:

--Break up police unions
--Demilitarization
--Overhaul the training regimen for prospective cops
--Federal police oversight, with budget cuts to PDs who violate Constitutional rights of citizens

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I'm pretty conservative and a police supporter and I agree with all of this except one point. Not sure we can cut budgets because of one bad apple, but if there are many, sure. My stepmother worked for the DOJ in internal affairs for the Bureau of Prisons. If they have federal oversight, police departments should have the same thing.

Police unions especially. It is very hard to get rid of someone in a union, even if they are really, really bad at their job, whether it's a cop with over a dozen complaints on his record, or a teacher with an abysmal pass/fail rate. If we could get unions to the point where those at the very back of the spectrum can be dropped off if they don't show any improvement, fine, keep unions, but many of them protect jobs of people who shouldn't be protected.

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Originally Posted by ThomasTomasz

I'm pretty conservative and a police supporter and I agree with all of this except one point. Not sure we can cut budgets because of one bad apple, but if there are many, sure. My stepmother worked for the DOJ in internal affairs for the Bureau of Prisons. If they have federal oversight, police departments should have the same thing.

Police unions especially. It is very hard to get rid of someone in a union, even if they are really, really bad at their job, whether it's a cop with over a dozen complaints on his record, or a teacher with an abysmal pass/fail rate. If we could get unions to the point where those at the very back of the spectrum can be dropped off if they don't show any improvement, fine, keep unions, but many of them protect jobs of people who shouldn't be protected.

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Unions bargain for what they can. They get those benefits bc management (govt) is complicit


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Originally Posted by hugepatsfan

Let me clarify. When I said "The budget should be set at what is considered necessary to keep the public safe. Not any more, not any less" I meant to imply that evaluating budgets and re-setting was a part of that.

I just don't think budget of the police force should be used as a reward or punishment. Set it at a level that meets community need. That's where it should stay. I don't think individual misconduct should carry a budget consequence for the overall force.

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I agree. The policing got much worse when the federal government started incentivizing growth, it became the primary and resulted in a larger but worse police force that was far more expensive. The police should be locally funded, locally managed, and locally sourced for manpower.

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Originally Posted by nastynice

Yup. They need to eliminate or minimize the profit incentive out of the justice system. That's the root of a lot of problems.

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Agreed. The very ideas of government and profit should be anathema.