This is why they kneel

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02-21-2022, 12:14 AM
joeyc77

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbroncos78087

I am loud in my defense of people’s rights. There is no concern for individual rights in the confederacy. Sorry swing and a miss!

If you were born in the south in 1860, you wouldn't even know what individual rights were. You'd be a clueless lemon. Similar to now, just with a gray uniform
02-21-2022, 12:19 AM
joeyc77

Quote:

Originally Posted by valade16

I did.

You don't just get to say "I want to honor this individual" while ignoring the heinous things they've done.

As I said: you want to overlook slavery.

If they accomplished great deeds, then yes those deeds should be honored. I'm not saying to just forget the slavery. Obviously, it should be considered but in some cases, their good deeds outshine even slavery.
02-21-2022, 12:29 AM
natepro

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeyc77

George Washington, thomas Jefferson, john adams...yeah they were pretty vital. If we are just talking about Confederate generals durIng the civil war, I'd say Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson did more positive than negative during that time.

John Adams didn't own slaves. He opposed the institution, in fact.

I'm not sure that even most slave owners were "vital parts of our history," though.
02-21-2022, 12:34 AM
natepro

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeyc77

If you were born in the south in 1860, you wouldn't even know what individual rights were. You'd be a clueless lemon. Similar to now, just with a gray uniform

Do you thing there were just no abolitionists in the South? The NY Times has an article in their archives from 1857 regarding the lynching of an abolitionist in Oxford, Mississippi.

I think you may have to be a subscriber to be able to see it.
02-21-2022, 12:36 AM
joeyc77

Quote:

Originally Posted by valade16

First Bolded: Just like you'll find a significant number of people who want to honor slave owners who fought for slavery :shrug:

Second Bolded: You realize the majority of slave owners we are talking about also raped and killed slaves right? Basically, the people we are talking about did what the guys you mentioned did, but more often, while also owning people and fighting for the right.

I think those that want to excuse these athletes' heinous crimes because they are famous athletes are the same sort of people who want to excuse Confederate General's heinous crimes because they are famous generals. It's the same energy.

It's just mindblowing to me we are sitting here in 2022 talking about slave owners who fought to keep slavery and asking "but were they really bad people?"

The reason for your 3rd paragraph is this: i can look at OJ Simpson and think he is a complete piece of **** who murdered two people in cold blood. However, if I'm naming the top 5 RBs of All-time, OJ is on the list. The former has nothing to do with the latter. He didn't kill anyone while scoring touchdowns , that we know of.

Barry Bonds is one of the worst human beings ever. I actually had a personal encounter with Bonds that made me hate him even more. That's on top of the steriods and all his personal drama. That being said, Bonds is one of the best hitters ive ever seen.

While again, this is no comparison to slavery. The sporting accomplishments of OJ or Bonds don't match the historical accomplishments of Washington or Jefferson.
02-21-2022, 12:38 AM
joeyc77

Quote:

Originally Posted by natepro

Do you thing there were just no abolitionists in the South? The NY Times has an article in their archives from 1857 regarding the lynching of an abolitionist in Oxford, Mississippi.

I think you may have to be a subscriber to be able to see it.

Yes, i realize there were abolitionists in the South. I'm saying no one on this forum wouId have the balls though, especially not dbroncs...
02-21-2022, 12:39 AM
joeyc77

Quote:

Originally Posted by natepro

John Adams didn't own slaves. He opposed the institution, in fact.

I'm not sure that even most slave owners were "vital parts of our history," though.

Most slave owners don't have monuments honoring them.
02-21-2022, 01:39 AM
valade16

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeyc77

If they accomplished great deeds, then yes those deeds should be honored. I'm not saying to just forget the slavery. Obviously, it should be considered but in some cases, their good deeds outshine even slavery.

Again, you inadvertently show your true colors. Good deeds? The Confederacy was not a good deed.
02-21-2022, 01:41 AM
valade16

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeyc77

The reason for your 3rd paragraph is this: i can look at OJ Simpson and think he is a complete piece of **** who murdered two people in cold blood. However, if I'm naming the top 5 RBs of All-time, OJ is on the list. The former has nothing to do with the latter. He didn't kill anyone while scoring touchdowns , that we know of.

Barry Bonds is one of the worst human beings ever. I actually had a personal encounter with Bonds that made me hate him even more. That's on top of the steriods and all his personal drama. That being said, Bonds is one of the best hitters ive ever seen.

While again, this is no comparison to slavery. The sporting accomplishments of OJ or Bonds don't match the historical accomplishments of Washington or Jefferson.

Yes, but there's a difference in acknowledging they were great at a particular skill and erecting statues to honor them.

Or put another way, do you think the Bills should erect a statue of OJ Simpson outside their stadium because he's one of the best HBs of all-time?

Also, we are not talking about Washington or Jefferson, we are talking about Confederate Generals, who in addition to owning slaves actively fought to keep slavery an institution.
02-21-2022, 01:42 AM
valade16

Joey: I can't support Kaepernick because he kneels

Also Joey: Owning slaves and fighting to keep slavery isn't a dealbreaker for me.

And he wonders why people think he's racist.
02-21-2022, 01:44 AM
dbroncsinmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by valade16

Again, you inadvertently show your true colors. Good deeds? The Confederacy was not a good deed.

Back then it was. The fact that you pretend to not understand that 1860 is not 2022 is astonishing at best.
02-21-2022, 01:46 AM
valade16

Although if any Founding Father deserves to be "cancelled" despite their accomplishments, it may very well be Thomas Jefferson, who raped his slave when they were 14.

I doubt many people would say that we should be honoring a star athlete today if we discovered they were a rapist pedophile.
02-21-2022, 01:47 AM
valade16

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo

Back then it was. The fact that you pretend to not understand that 1860 is not 2022 is astonishing at best.

No, it wasn't. The Confederacy was to maintain slavery. Even back then it was considered bad (hence why we went to war to end to end it), and most of the other major powers had eliminated slavery at that point.

But the fact you don't understand 1860 is not astonishing at all...
02-21-2022, 02:12 AM
dbroncsinmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by valade16

No, it wasn't.

Yes it was.
02-21-2022, 02:15 AM
spliff(TONE)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeyc77

The reason for your 3rd paragraph is this: i can look at OJ Simpson and think he is a complete piece of **** who murdered two people in cold blood. However, if I'm naming the top 5 RBs of All-time, OJ is on the list. The former has nothing to do with the latter. He didn't kill anyone while scoring touchdowns , that we know of.

Barry Bonds is one of the worst human beings ever. I actually had a personal encounter with Bonds that made me hate him even more. That's on top of the steriods and all his personal drama. That being said, Bonds is one of the best hitters ive ever seen.

While again, this is no comparison to slavery. The sporting accomplishments of OJ or Bonds don't match the historical accomplishments of Washington or Jefferson.

Lofl I'd love to see you get punked by Barry Bonds.

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