This is why they kneel

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02-20-2022, 09:28 PM
valade16

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeyc77

Do you actually read my posts? Before we have any more conversation, maybe you should go and reread the comment you replied to.

I did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeyc77

I'm not suggesting honoring them for slavery. They should be honored for their good deeds. While obviously there's no comparison to slavery, i compare civil war generals to sports figures. IMO, OJ should still have his heisman. Pete rose, barry bonds, and mark mcgwire should be in the HOF. We can honor their efforts on the "battlefield" while overlooking their misdeeds.

You don't just get to say "I want to honor this individual" while ignoring the heinous things they've done.

As I said: you want to overlook slavery.
02-20-2022, 09:49 PM
Jack the Ripper

Quote:

Originally Posted by valade16

That is not how it works. You don't just get to say "I want to honor this individual" while ignoring the heinous things they've done.

OJ Simpson? Mike Tyson? Chris Benoit? People honor these individuals all the time while ignoring the heinous things they’ve done.
02-20-2022, 10:01 PM
metswon69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper

OJ Simpson? Mike Tyson? Chris Benoit? People honor these individuals all the time while ignoring the heinous things they’ve done.

One could make the argument they probably shouldn't though and to be fair WWE has basically scrapped Benoit from their history entirely. I'm sure if the NFL could take OJ Simpson out of the HOF, they probably would. Not to mention, OJ has basically become a pariah. You don't see him in anything but old NFL films video.

Mike Tyson has gotten a weird pass I'll admit. Most people don't come back from rape to be endeared by so many.
02-20-2022, 10:01 PM
valade16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper

OJ Simpson? Mike Tyson? Chris Benoit? People honor these individuals all the time while ignoring the heinous things they’ve done.

There's heinous and then there's heinous. Does anyone think what they did was as bad as owning slaves, raping slaves, killing slaves, and fighting for slavery?

Also, Chris Benoit isn't really honored at this point, the WWE has done all they can to scrub him from their history and makes it a point to avoid him when talking about past greast.

OJ has the not guilty verdict to fall back on, but even then, he isn't really honored in that the Bills go out of their way to shun him in terms of recognizing their all-time greats.

The closest example may be Mike Tyson, who has had one of the more improbable character comebacks of all-time.
02-20-2022, 10:09 PM
Jack the Ripper

My point is that in spite of Benoit being scrubbed from WWE history, you’ll still find a significant number of fans who want him honored in the HOF. Some of the same people who would speak out against standing monuments.

Do I think that what they did was as bad as owning slaves, raping slaves, and fighting for slavery? Yes. I named a convicted rapist and two murderers. How are their crimes less heinous than those who committed the same crimes but toward different people? The only difference is that they are famous athletes and people want to excuse their heinous crimes because they enjoy the sports they competed in.
02-20-2022, 10:16 PM
metswon69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper

My point is that in spite of Benoit being scrubbed from WWE history, you’ll still find a significant number of fans who want him honored in the HOF. Some of the same people who would speak out against standing monuments.

Do I think that what they did was as bad as owning slaves, raping slaves, and fighting for slavery? Yes. I named a convicted rapist and two murderers. How are their crimes less heinous than those who committed the same crimes but toward different people? The only difference is that they are famous athletes and people want to excuse their heinous crimes because they enjoy the sports they competed in.

And what would you call those fans? I think its pretty clear they're delusional. Nothing he accomplished in the ring will ever eclipse the fact that he murdered 2 people. I feel like that can be applied to historical figures who owned, raped, and/or killed their slaves and fought for the right for them and others to continue doing so.

Everyone in that discussion knew what they were doing was immoral, reprehensible, unethical, and inhumane and did it anyway.
02-20-2022, 10:18 PM
Jack the Ripper

Quote:

Originally Posted by metswon69

And what would you call those fans? I think its pretty clear they're delusional. Nothing he accomplished in the ring will ever eclipse the fact that he murdered 2 people. I feel like that can be applied to historical figures who owned, raped, and/or killed their slaves and fought for the right to continue doing so.

Everyone in that discussion knew what they were doing was immoral, reprehensible, unethical, and inhumane and did them anyway.

Not delusional, but hypocrites. And you will probably find that the majority of people in this country are hypocrites when it comes to this issue.
02-20-2022, 10:21 PM
metswon69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper

Not delusional, but hypocrites. And you will probably find that the majority of people in this country are hypocrites when it comes to this issue.

They sound pretty delusional to me. I loved Benoit growing up going all the way back to his days in WCW but once he killed his wife and kid, any chance of him being recognized for his athletic career went out the window imo. I would have felt the same way about OJ had I been old enough to have seen his playing days. He was an extraordinary RB and I even thought he was funny in the Naked Gun series but considering he's a murderer, nothing he has done or will do will ever eclipse those actions in my and most people's eyes.
02-20-2022, 10:25 PM
natepro

Who the hell is honoring OJ Simpson?
02-20-2022, 10:26 PM
Jack the Ripper

Quote:

Originally Posted by metswon69

They sound pretty delusional to me. I loved Benoit growing up going all the way back to his days in WCW but once he killed his wife and kid, any chance of him being recognized for his athletic career went out the window imo. I would have felt the same way about OJ had I been old enough to have seen his playing days. He was an extraordinary RB and I even thought he was funny in the Naked Gun series but considering he's a murderer, nothing he has done or will do will ever eclipse those actions in my and most people's eyes.

I don’t disagree. Learning that OJ was a Buffalo Bill when I was a kid as that trial was happening was an awful realization. There are still fans that wear Simpson jerseys, probably mostly for shock value, but it’s rather repulsive to me.
02-20-2022, 10:27 PM
Jack the Ripper

Quote:

Originally Posted by natepro

Who the hell is honoring OJ Simpson?

The NFL Hall of Fame, for one. His bust is still displayed there.
02-20-2022, 10:29 PM
metswon69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper

The NFL Hall of Fame, for one. His bust is still displayed there.

Crazy how the NFL has bylaws where you can't remove people from the Hall. Makes no sense that OJ Simpson is in a HOF and Barry Bonds isn't. I know the murders happened well after his playing career was over but the logic doesn't fly.
02-20-2022, 10:29 PM
natepro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper

The NFL Hall of Fame, for one. His bust is still displayed there.

Apparently the HOF bylaws don't allow for removing someone.
02-20-2022, 10:31 PM
Jack the Ripper

Quote:

Originally Posted by metswon69

Crazy how the NFL has bylaws where you can't remove people from the Hall. Makes no sense that OJ Simpson is in a HOF and Barry Bonds isn't. I know the murders happened well after his playing career was over but the logic doesn't fly.

If it can be messed up, humans will mess it up!
02-20-2022, 10:50 PM
valade16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper

My point is that in spite of Benoit being scrubbed from WWE history, you’ll still find a significant number of fans who want him honored in the HOF. Some of the same people who would speak out against standing monuments.

Do I think that what they did was as bad as owning slaves, raping slaves, and fighting for slavery? Yes. I named a convicted rapist and two murderers. How are their crimes less heinous than those who committed the same crimes but toward different people? The only difference is that they are famous athletes and people want to excuse their heinous crimes because they enjoy the sports they competed in.

First Bolded: Just like you'll find a significant number of people who want to honor slave owners who fought for slavery :shrug:

Second Bolded: You realize the majority of slave owners we are talking about also raped and killed slaves right? Basically, the people we are talking about did what the guys you mentioned did, but more often, while also owning people and fighting for the right.

I think those that want to excuse these athletes' heinous crimes because they are famous athletes are the same sort of people who want to excuse Confederate General's heinous crimes because they are famous generals. It's the same energy.

It's just mindblowing to me we are sitting here in 2022 talking about slave owners who fought to keep slavery and asking "but were they really bad people?"

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