This is why they kneel

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joeyc77

You cannot determine or dictate what’s in people’s minds or thoughts is what he is saying. He’s not explaining systemic racism. He’s also saying that similarly conservatives viewpoints on issues like cutting programs which go primarily to black people are determined to be racist by the other side when in fact, they are just fiscally conservative, right or wrong.

Within the context of this interview he’s actually denying “systemic racism” in that he claims the Republicans did not have a southern strategy in 1980 and much of their platform is misunderstood, either by racists or by liberals claiming it to be racism.

---

Yes, I agree one may not necessarily be able to determine peoples intents or thoughts, but he still points it out as a very real part of the equation here. Again, not the voters intent, but just the fact that these are abstract ways for racism to be perpetuated.

You're right in saying that his words were presented a little out of context, in the sense that it seemed as if he were mentioning it as a purposeful plan, much like the crack laws have been exposed to be. However, he still acknowledges systemic racism as a reality, regardless of the intent, he acknowledges its effects to be a reality.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nastynice

Yes, I agree one may not necessarily be able to determine peoples intents or thoughts, but he still points it out as a very real part of the equation here. Again, not the voters intent, but just the fact that these are abstract ways for racism to be perpetuated.

You're right in saying that his words were presented a little out of context, in the sense that it seemed as if he were mentioning it as a purposeful plan, much like the crack laws have been exposed to be. However, he still acknowledges systemic racism as a reality, regardless of the intent, he acknowledges its effects to be a reality.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

---

He’s actually saying the exact opposite of what you claim him to bring saying. He’s saying that in 1980, which in 40 years ago now, that race/racism was no longer an issue or a political issue in the south. Certainly, not one worth advocating for. That the issues which were so prominent as part of the south in the 1950s and 1960s have now been replaced by more pressing issues by southern voters. He does not acknowledge systemic racism. He’s claiming that racism is not longer a political issue for the south. That saying “n*****, n*****, n*****” will no longer win you votes in the south like it had done so for 100 years.

I’m sorry to burst your bubble but he’s saying the exact opposite of what you claim. Furthermore, bad people are allowed to vote. No one determines their reasoning. If a sexist man is against women’s right votes for a pro life candidate this is not systemic sexism. This happens in both parties. Candidates can not determine how their policies and beliefs will be interpreted by flawed individuals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joeyc77

He’s actually saying the exact opposite of what you claim him to bring saying. He’s saying that in 1980, which in 40 years ago now, that race/racism was no longer an issue or a political issue in the south. Certainly, not one worth advocating for. That the issues which were so prominent as part of the south in the 1950s and 1960s have now been replaced by more pressing issues by southern voters. He does not acknowledge systemic racism. He’s claiming that racism is not longer a political issue for the south. That saying “n*****, n*****, n*****” will no longer win you votes in the south like it had done so for 100 years.

I’m sorry to burst your bubble but he’s saying the exact opposite of what you claim. Furthermore, bad people are allowed to vote. No one determines their reasoning. If a sexist man is against women’s right votes for a pro life candidate this is not systemic sexism. This happens in both parties. Candidates can not determine how their policies and beliefs will be interpreted by flawed individuals.

---

No, he said that turns into more abstract things as time progresses which disproportionately effect diff races.

You are confusing him pointing out systemic racism with his overall point.

And yes, that's not systemic sexism, that's why you have to listen to what he said. He will describe to you systemic racism. Again, you seem to be wrongly assuming intent must play a role in systemic racism.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joeyc77

I don’t support the group BLM. Have you actually read their site and you 100% agree with it? Are you sure?

---

Since when do you have to agree with a group 100% to support them?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nastynice

No, he said that turns into more abstract things as time progresses which disproportionately effect diff races.

You are confusing him pointing out systemic racism with his overall point.

And yes, that's not systemic sexism, that's why you have to listen to what he said. He will describe to you systemic racism. Again, you seem to be wrongly assuming intent must play a role in systemic racism.

---

Because Joey cannot comprehend racism without intent. He literally cannot wrap his brain around the idea that people's beliefs dictate their behavior in ways beyond intentional decisions.

Honestly, a psychology class where they go over how many things influence our behavior and decisions without intent would blow Joey's mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by valade16

Since when do you have to agree with a group 100% to support them?

---

In this case there's a disconnect of what is meant by 'them'
Them as in those protesting for change? Or them, the group begun by Cullors and Garcia?
Because a lot of people are far more supportive of one than the other, yes?
You'd agree they're not quite the same 'them'?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SiteWolf

In this case there's a disconnect of what is meant by 'them'
Them as in those protesting for change? Or them, the group begun by Cullors and Garcia?
Because a lot of people are far more supportive of one than the other, yes?
You'd agree they're not quite the same 'them'?

---

They are definitely not the same. An answer for both would be helpful, because I doubt Joey supports either the protesters or the organization. So when (if) he says he supports BLM, what is he actually talking about?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by valade16

Since when do you have to agree with a group 100% to support them?

---

And the trains rain well it Italy when Mussolini was in charge. You don’t have to agree with them 100%, but their tactics and standards are deplorable IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by valade16

Because Joey cannot comprehend racism without intent. He literally cannot wrap his brain around the idea that people's beliefs dictate their behavior in ways beyond intentional decisions.

Honestly, a psychology class where they go over how many things influence our behavior and decisions without intent would blow Joey's mind.

---

Because discrimination based on the belief racial superiority is about intent. People’s beliefs don’t always dictate their behavior. I have this little neighbor girl that is an absolute c***. She’s always running her mouth at her parents/guardians. She’s always being loud and obnoxious. I have daily thoughts about whacking that kid in the head and doing society a favor. Obviously, I don’t act on these thoughts and would never hurt a kid but the thoughts are there.

A class on systemic racism sounds wonderful. Point me in the direction please....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by valade16

They are definitely not the same. An answer for both would be helpful, because I doubt Joey supports either the protesters or the organization. So when (if) he says he supports BLM, what is he actually talking about?

---

I support people’s right to protest about whatever their heart desires. I don’t support the rioting and/or looting that seems to accompany some of these protests. Their right to protest doesn’t trump other people’s right to own a business or building.

I support the phrase “black lives matter.” Most people do. But the organization has corrupted that phrase and as we have learned is not inclusive of all black lives. It’s sad to be honest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joeyc77

Because discrimination based on the belief racial superiority is about intent. People’s beliefs don’t always dictate their behavior. I have this little neighbor girl that is an absolute c***. She’s always running her mouth at her parents/guardians. She’s always being loud and obnoxious. I have daily thoughts about whacking that kid in the head and doing society a favor. Obviously, I don’t act on these thoughts and would never hurt a kid but the thoughts are there.

A class on systemic racism sounds wonderful. Point me in the direction please....

---

First Bolded: But discrimination can occur without intent. Do you agree?

Second Bolded: Just because people's beliefs don't always dictate their behavior doesn't mean they never do. Also, you're precluding many things that do dictate behavior. For example:

Third Bolded: I'm not talking about systemic racism. I'm talking what influences our behavior. Did you know there was a study that found a person's walking speed down a hallway was influenced simply by the speed at which a another random person walked down the hallway (in either direction and not blocking the test subjects path). So a person's behavior (their walking speed) can literally be affected by a stranger's walking speed. The person did not make the conscious decision to walk slower or faster, it was a subconscious decision.

You don't seem to grasp this is possible. That people's behavior is dictated by a whole host of things beyond their conscious decision making. And it makes sense, although you can consciously decide to blink, you also blink many times without deciding to do so. There are literally thousands of stimuli you encounter every day that impact and influence your decisions, and your personal beliefs impact and influence your decisions even if you're not aware of it on a conscious level. If you like the color red, you're more prone to select red things, even if the color of whatever you're picking is irrelevant to your conscious decision making.

Honestly, your bizarre belief that all decisions a person makes are intentional, conscious ones, is so far out of touch with reality it's difficult to explain just how out of touch to reality it is. To go back to the example of the police officer that pulled over 100 black people, it's not that the police officer intentionally decided "I'm pulling over the black guy" every time, it's that his beliefs subconscious made his brain pick the black guy while he consciously thinks he's picking at random.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joeyc77

I support people’s right to protest about whatever their heart desires. I don’t support the rioting and/or looting that seems to accompany some of these protests. Their right to protest doesn’t trump other people’s right to own a business or building.

I support the phrase “black lives matter.” Most people do. But the organization has corrupted that phrase and as we have learned is not inclusive of all black lives. It’s sad to be honest.

---

My contention is that you only support the phrase, because you have never supported anything that actually tried to enact change, regardless of whether it was peaceful or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joeyc77

And the trains rain well it Italy when Mussolini was in charge. You don’t have to agree with them 100%, but their tactics and standards are deplorable IMO.

---

Yes because Goodwin's law is silly I am going to use Mussolini instead of Hitler for a dumb analogy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by valade16

First Bolded: But discrimination can occur without intent. Do you agree?

Second Bolded: Just because people's beliefs don't always dictate their behavior doesn't mean they never do. Also, you're precluding many things that do dictate behavior. For example:

Third Bolded: I'm not talking about systemic racism. I'm talking what influences our behavior. Did you know there was a study that found a person's walking speed down a hallway was influenced simply by the speed at which a another random person walked down the hallway (in either direction and not blocking the test subjects path). So a person's behavior (their walking speed) can literally be affected by a stranger's walking speed. The person did not make the conscious decision to walk slower or faster, it was a subconscious decision.

You don't seem to grasp this is possible. That people's behavior is dictated by a whole host of things beyond their conscious decision making. And it makes sense, although you can consciously decide to blink, you also blink many times without deciding to do so. There are literally thousands of stimuli you encounter every day that impact and influence your decisions, and your personal beliefs impact and influence your decisions even if you're not aware of it on a conscious level. If you like the color red, you're more prone to select red things, even if the color of whatever you're picking is irrelevant to your conscious decision making.

Honestly, your bizarre belief that all decisions a person makes are intentional, conscious ones, is so far out of touch with reality it's difficult to explain just how out of touch to reality it is. To go back to the example of the police officer that pulled over 100 black people, it's not that the police officer intentionally decided "I'm pulling over the black guy" every time, it's that his beliefs subconscious made his brain pick the black guy while he consciously thinks he's picking at random.

---

Discrimination based on racist beliefs requires intent. If a black customer walked into a clothing store and began wondering around the store, the store employee may wonder over in their direction and may ask if they need assistance. This isn’t a necessarily a racist subconscious choice dictating behavior. It might be, given that person has racist thoughts. But if the person isn’t a racist, there’s no reason to believe it was discrimination.
My belief is that racism is not subconscious. Religion is not subconscious. People choose their belief systems. Being racist or not is among them.

Years ago I worked in a gas station. On my very first night, I took cash from a customer and the cash had boogies on it. From that day forward, I made a decision to as often as I could, not touch other people’s hands because I didn’t know where they had been. In doing so, I’d often drop coins into people’s hands as not to touch them. One night, a black customer accused me of doing this out of racism. I politely informed him that it wasn’t his “black hands” I was bothered to touch. It was anyone’s hands as I don’t know where those hands have been. That it wasn’t a subconscious decision not to touch his black hands. It was a conscious decision to avoid everyone’s hands.

No, I don’t believe a police officer would subconsciously choose to pull over a black person over a white person 100 consecutive times. Maybe a few times in a row but at some point, it becomes a conscious decision and in that case, a racist one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by valade16

My contention is that you only support the phrase, because you have never supported anything that actually tried to enact change, regardless of whether it was peaceful or not.

---

Yes I only support the phrase BLM. I don’t support the organization at all. While some of the things they are doing may be admirable. I fully disagree with their tactics and most, if not all, of their principles.