This is why they kneel

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

People consistently seem to think raising the minimum wage will resolve so many economic issues. It won't. It will have a negative effect on job growth as well as the ability of many small businesses to remain open. On top of that it would increase inflation and make American made products less viable in the international market.

That's not to say there shouldn't be changes/increases in the minimum wage, just that a big jump would have more negative effects than people think. For example, if someone is making $10/hr and the minimum is raised to $15, it's not just their wage that would need to be raised. The domino effect would ripple upward.

Just like the emphasis to get everyone health care has been stronger than figuring out why health care costs as much as it does, raising minimum wage to get more people so-called living wages shouldn't preclude figuring out ways why the cost of living is as high as it is.

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I'm not sure if I agree with you, but good post.

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

which is why it won't happen.....it's too easy, the rich can't exploit it or find the loopholes

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Believe me, the rich won’t ever have to worry about finding loopholes to exploit; right now they’ll just lean on their pennyboys in DC to create them.

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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

Put in a national sales tax on everything for everyne. No exceptions for churches, schools, hospitals, non-profits…everyone pays.

No Deductions.

Add a luxury sales tax for excessive items that only the rich can buy…yachts, jets, absurd homes, ridiculous jewelry etc.

Seems easy enough to me.

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You forgot about your genius plan to heavily tax cell phone usage.

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Originally Posted by Crovash

Believe me, the rich won’t ever have to worry about finding loopholes to exploit; right now they’ll just lean on their pennyboys in DC to create them.

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What people don't think about or realize is that the original income tax was basically a flat tax. Then they realized there should be exceptions....and those exceptions just kept multiplying and branching out and now we have this.

It's the first thing I think about when people suggest we go to a flat tax. Yeah, well, that's just restarting the same damn system.

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

which is why it won't happen.....it's too easy, the rich can't exploit it or find the loopholes

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A lot of things won't happen so long as congress is protecting itself. It's why you don't see term limits. What it would take is a grass roots effort to start a discussion on term limits and hope that that can gain legs. If the nutty "squad" can get elected (and there are more on the way) with their idiotic platform, why not a group of young reps to start the term limits ball rolling. (And it is interesting that even the "squad" doesn't talk about term limits.)

One of the problems (perhaps the biggest problem) is that a good portion of the voting public have no idea as to what term limits are and what they mean.

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Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo

Damn right it should tell you all you need to know. Your state officials ****ed you, but you stubborn fools will never admit it. Hell, you guys are so zombified that I'm not even sure you know it.

It's not odd at all that the red cities are doing pretty damn good in comparison to their counterparts.

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Which red cities are you referring?

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

People consistently seem to think raising the minimum wage will resolve so many economic issues. It won't. It will have a negative effect on job growth as well as the ability of many small businesses to remain open. On top of that it would increase inflation and make American made products less viable in the international market.

That's not to say there shouldn't be changes/increases in the minimum wage, just that a big jump would have more negative effects than people think. For example, if someone is making $10/hr and the minimum is raised to $15, it's not just their wage that would need to be raised. The domino effect would ripple upward.

Just like the emphasis to get everyone health care has been stronger than figuring out why health care costs as much as it does, raising minimum wage to get more people so-called living wages shouldn't preclude figuring out ways why the cost of living is as high as it is.

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Sure there's an upper limit where raising the minimum wage becomes a bad proposition, but there's also a lower limit where paying those wages is a bad proposition. We are closer to the lower limit than we are to the upper limit. You threw out $10 an hour, well the Federal Minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. Why couldn't that go up to $10?


Let's be honest "I can't possibly pay you a dime more because it's actually bad for you to get more money" sounds like something rich people say to poor people to keep from having to give them more money.

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Originally Posted by valade16

Sure there's an upper limit where raising the minimum wage becomes a bad proposition, but there's also a lower limit where paying those wages is a bad proposition. We are closer to the lower limit than we are to the upper limit. You threw out $10 an hour, well the Federal Minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. Why couldn't that go up to $10?


Let's be honest "I can't possibly pay you a dime more because it's actually bad for you to get more money" sounds like something rich people say to poor people to keep from having to give them more money.

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The FEDERAL minimum is $7.25, but 30 states have minimums above that with 20 of them between $10 and $15. I'm not suggesting we keep the minimum wage as is- the federal minimum hasn't changed in a long time. What I'm cautioning is regarding the impact a significant jump can have. You're focusing on rich likely big business owners while I'm thinking of the small business owner, people who don't have a lot of wiggle room to remain in business....and in this time frame are in more fragile positions than maybe ever. Even the big businesses would react to significant increase in minimum wage by reducing the number of overall jobs.

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

The FEDERAL minimum is $7.25, but 30 states have minimums above that with 20 of them between $10 and $15. I'm not suggesting we keep the minimum wage as is- the federal minimum hasn't changed in a long time. What I'm cautioning is regarding the impact a significant jump can have. You're focusing on rich likely big business owners while I'm thinking of the small business owner, people who don't have a lot of wiggle room to remain in business....and in this time frame are in more fragile positions than maybe ever. Even the big businesses would react to significant increase in minimum wage by reducing the number of overall jobs.

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And yet those 30 states don't suffer from negative effect on job growth as well as the ability of many small businesses to remain open. On top of that it would increase inflation and make American made products less viable in the international market.

So I think it's safe to say that yes we agree there's an upper limit ($15 is probably too high), but that the minimum wage should definitely be raised.

But my overarching point is that yes, even businesses that could afford to pay their workers more would still pass that cost onto consumers. Because the one thing that can't happen, even though they could afford it, is making less money.

And those same greedy people that won't accept making a $1 less than they currently do are the people we believe will trickle our money back down to us when we give it all to them?

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Originally Posted by valade16

But my overarching point is that yes, even businesses that could afford to pay their workers more would still pass that cost onto consumers. Because the one thing that can't happen, even though they could afford it, is making less money.

And those same greedy people that won't accept making a $1 less than they currently do are the people we believe will trickle our money back down to us when we give it all to them?

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No, I don't disagree there....that's part of why I said the impact wouldn't be as positive as some think. Prices on things go up, job growth goes down, cost of living goes up, US products exported goes down...net gain negative.

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

No, I don't disagree there....that's part of why I said the impact wouldn't be as positive as some think. Prices on things go up, job growth goes down, cost of living goes up, US products exported goes down...net gain negative.

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Then at some point we either have to start holding these people accountable for their greed. Or at the very least stop giving them all our money in the hopes that some will trickle back down to us.

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Originally Posted by Sluggo1

Great idea. It would affect everyone that still had a job. Of course, many more would not have one of those jobs,

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So when it moves away from the rich people working class people lose jobs but when it moves to the top everyone benefits. Did I get it right?


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Originally Posted by valade16

Then at some point we either have to start holding these people accountable for their greed. Or at the very least stop giving them all our money in the hopes that some will trickle back down to us.

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oh there's no trickling...they get it, they hold onto it, then snowball what they're holding onto

but yeah, unless and until we as a country find a way for the wealthy to pay their fair share into the system, taxes and otherwise, we'll continue our trend towards more and more needing assistance while the wealthy continue their game of monopoly while the rest of us play candyland

this all ties together politically...unless and until we break this ongoing situation with career politicians doing the bidding of big oil/pharma/wall street where our 'voice' is little more than choosing whith side is more palatable, not which will actually push for what we need....we'll continue down this destructive path (destructive for everyone who doesn't break into that top group somehow)

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Originally Posted by valade16

But my overarching point is that yes, even businesses that could afford to pay their workers more would still pass that cost onto consumers. Because the one thing that can't happen, even though they could afford it, is making less money.

And those same greedy people that won't accept making a $1 less than they currently do are the people we believe will trickle our money back down to us when we give it all to them?

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You’re looking at this by considering all business owners as if they were in the top 1% and that’s not the case. Many business owners, especially small businesses, are in the middle class, not much better off than anyone else.

My friend owns a home healthcare company, taking care of elderly people. He trains his employees meaning they can start at his company with little or no experience. He prides himself on taking care of his employees and I’ve seen first hand that he does. Currently, he pays his employees between $10-13 an hr which is better than most home health aides. With his pricing, after taxes and administrative costs he takes home about $2-3 per hr per client. If the federal minimum wage increased to $15, he would than be paying $15-18 an hr to employees. He would then net negative $2-3 per client. He would most likely need to put the $5 an hr increase in his clients who are elderly people. This is the same in most small businesses. It’s not about taking money from the wealthy. It’s about preserving small businesses.