This is why they kneel

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08-31-2020, 09:36 AM
SpecialFNK

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo

Commas are very useful.

commas are important. a comma is the difference between..
man, boobs are awesome.
man boobs are awesome.
08-31-2020, 09:38 AM
benny01

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpecialFNK

commas are important. a comma is the difference between..
man, boobs are awesome.
man boobs are awesome.

Nicely done special
08-31-2020, 09:53 AM
Sluggo1

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewing

I don’t think we have an expert on this board. We are all lacking a lot of knowledge here. I don’t think he has made up “facts”. I could be wrong. You also use language like “abolish” and call unions “the” reason even though you are working with nothing more then a conceptual framework. I think he has stated he wants to tear down the system and start over. These are both extremes. Extreme and declarative positions demand a little more knowledge imo.

As for issues let take teachers:

Do you think teachers in have legitimate concerns about safety and working conditions right now reconsidering the push to reopen schools?

Do you think a lot of teachers come out of pocket for supplies? Do you think the should have to?

Here is the average starting pay for a teacher

https://www.niche.com/blog/teacher-salaries-in-america/

The average starting salary some with a Bachelors degree only

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtoo...ege-grads.aspx

I think teachers are pretty important. They generally need to have a masters as well. Looks to me like they are underpaid. I bet if we had a referendum on it they would win.

Safety, pay, supplies those are 3 legitimate issues teachers unions negotiate for.

I am sure we could do this with other fields and someone with intimate knowledge of the area could come up with more

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Let's not forget that teachers are only working 10 months out of the year. If they were being paid for 12 months the first state on the list (Alabama) extrapolates out to $46K. Not a bad starting salary. And some of the average salaries are pretty good.

And before you split hairs over this…I am fully aware that they accept this by choice.

There is also this (somewhat dated article) ……
https://www.forbes.com/sites/warrenm.../#7e7a1aea3137

Things aren't as bad as teachers make it out to be.
08-31-2020, 10:39 AM
Scoots

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewing

That is fair. I think there probably are some general problem with union structure as well (political donations, accompanied corruption are a good example) I think we would need a lot of data to support throwing them out as opposed to reforming. Thanks for your reply I think we agree

Unions are good for helping employees collectively bargain against corporate leaders who are focusing on the bottom line and lining their own pockets. This is good.

But the government is the people and there is not profit motivation. I don't think there should be unions for government employees.

I also don't think unions should be using dues for political contributions. I have no issue with them SUGGESTING contributions to their members.
08-31-2020, 10:55 AM
SiteWolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sluggo1

Let's not forget that teachers are only working 10 months out of the year. If they were being paid for 12 months the first state on the list (Alabama) extrapolates out to $46K. Not a bad starting salary. And some of the average salaries are pretty good.

And before you split hairs over this…I am fully aware that they accept this by choice.

There is also this (somewhat dated article) ……
https://www.forbes.com/sites/warrenm.../#7e7a1aea3137

Things aren't as bad as teachers make it out to be.

There's truth to that. When determining what teacher salaries are they always look at annual salary and not an extrapolated salary based on weeks worked. Yes, if a teacher is paid 40k and takes no other work, 40k is what they make....but they get however many weeks off in the summer months AND accumulate vacation like other jobs. If I only worked 9-10 months of the year my salary would look pretty anemic as well.

I'm certainly appreciative of the work they do and understand needing some time off...but the rest of us work year round...and they have every opportunity to take on extra work in the summer and/or find temp jobs to do if they're needing the income.
08-31-2020, 12:25 PM
ewing

This is why they kneel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sluggo1

Let's not forget that teachers are only working 10 months out of the year. If they were being paid for 12 months the first state on the list (Alabama) extrapolates out to $46K. Not a bad starting salary. And some of the average salaries are pretty good.

And before you split hairs over this…I am fully aware that they accept this by choice.

There is also this (somewhat dated article) ……
https://www.forbes.com/sites/warrenm.../#7e7a1aea3137

Things aren't as bad as teachers make it out to be.

Regardless their pay us below average for someone with there credentials and certainly is not reflective of them being part of a profession that’s very important

they do make the choice but given there importance I think we should want to attract good candidates and keep them happy

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
08-31-2020, 12:26 PM
joeyc77

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiteWolf

wait, what? Technology is our teachers? How's that work? Artificial intelligence? Who's 'teaching' technology? You can't just google every question a child may have nor does decreasing human interaction bode well going forward...kids today already do too much of that.

Now, the REAL way IMO to increase technology's use by teachers is to utilize it to provide more class options to more students. For example, not every school would need certain classes because those that don't have a teacher for it could take the class virtually (i.e. especially helpful in rural areas where there may only be a handful in each class)....but that doesn't DEcrease the need for teachers, it just allows more to specialize.

Kids can get human interaction through social activities like clubs and sports. They don’t need to sit in a classroom and follow “rules” all day. Our current system is designed to produce rule followers who sit at a desk all day in an office. Our system is not designed to breed creative, open minded individuals who work through issues on their own. It’s a flawed system that way.

Furthermore, what world do you think kids will grow up in? A world without technology at our fingertips where literally any questions can be answered or the world we grew up in with encyclopedias? People should be pushing their kids towards more screen time, more technology, not less. Just because “we didn’t grow up that way” is not an excuse. It’s the modern day version of walking to school, both ways, uphill.
08-31-2020, 12:29 PM
ewing

This is why they kneel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoots

Unions are good for helping employees collectively bargain against corporate leaders who are focusing on the bottom line and lining their own pockets. This is good.

But the government is the people and there is not profit motivation. I don't think there should be unions for government employees.

I also don't think unions should be using dues for political contributions. I have no issue with them SUGGESTING contributions to their members.

School administrators are rewarded for not spending the same way management is rewarded for maximizing profit. The idea that corporate America would take advantage of someone that was dependent on them but not the government is laughable

I also dont like the fact they make political donations but that arena is a total **** show

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08-31-2020, 12:38 PM
mike_noodles

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeyc77

Furthermore, what world do you think kids will grow up in? A world without technology at our fingertips where literally any questions can be answered or the world we grew up in with encyclopedias? People should be pushing their kids towards more screen time, more technology, not less. Just because “we didn’t grow up that way” is not an excuse. It’s the modern day version of walking to school, both ways, uphill.

I agree with you on this paragraph Joey. I've heard people say that their kids don't get to use a tablet or computer until 5-6 years old. That puts them years behind other kids. My daughter was showing me things at 4 that I didn't know about the ipad.
08-31-2020, 12:51 PM
flips333

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiteWolf

There's truth to that. When determining what teacher salaries are they always look at annual salary and not an extrapolated salary based on weeks worked. Yes, if a teacher is paid 40k and takes no other work, 40k is what they make....but they get however many weeks off in the summer months AND accumulate vacation like other jobs. If I only worked 9-10 months of the year my salary would look pretty anemic as well.

I'm certainly appreciative of the work they do and understand needing some time off...but the rest of us work year round...and they have every opportunity to take on extra work in the summer and/or find temp jobs to do if they're needing the income.

I want to poke people's eyes out (including my wife's) when they suggest that teachers don't work in the summer. I know practically no professors, and very few high school or middle school teachers (I don't know many grade school teachers) who are just kicking it all summer. My high school teaching friends are working 55-60 hrs/week during the school year and 20-25 hrs/week in the summer. Do the math. Perhaps I have a skewed population (I tend to know very good teachers)
08-31-2020, 12:54 PM
flips333

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_noodles

I agree with you on this paragraph Joey. I've heard people say that their kids don't get to use a tablet or computer until 5-6 years old. That puts them years behind other kids. My daughter was showing me things at 4 that I didn't know about the ipad.

The evidence is that this will be bad for their learning in the future not good. Picking up technology is not the same as learning critical thinking or writing. The ipad just isn't going to do that.

Not to mention I can show you links between screen time and substance use, suicide, mental illness.

The things are tools. They can be useful as tools in the classroom, but too much of it will not help your kid. It will stunt them. Kids can't read a map or figure out plan a route to get from one place to another anymore... why? Well they know how to use the app. Well does that mean they know more than someone who doesn't know the app?
08-31-2020, 12:55 PM
flips333

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewing

Regardless their pay us below average for someone with there credentials and certainly is not reflective of them being part of a profession that’s very important

they do make the choice but given there importance I think we should want to attract good candidates and keep them happy

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We are ****ing capitalistic. Salaries are an indicator of fundamental values.
08-31-2020, 01:15 PM
Sluggo1

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewing

Regardless their pay us below average for someone with there credentials and certainly is not reflective of them being part of a profession that’s very important

they do make the choice but given there importance I think we should want to attract good candidates and keep them happy

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bold 1…: a lot of them are just college graduates

Bold 2:…Given their importance??? Yeah, that must be true given the fact that the imply it constantly. Sounds like there is a teacher in the family.

Bold 3……We probably do attract good candidates. We need to find a way to get rid of the bad teachers that evolve from the good candidates and pay the good teachers more $$$. But you can't do that with a union/

I get tired of hearing these teachers song the same old song. The US sends more $$$ per student than any nation and we get lousy results. Didn't Baltimore have an entire graduating class (or push em out class) that could not read or do math at grade level???. But it's never the teacher's fault. Always something else……parents, dilapidated buildings, old textbooks, blah, blah, blah. Never them.

It makes it awfully hard to listen them complain about money.
08-31-2020, 01:18 PM
Sluggo1

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbroncos78087

People will always make excuses to defend executioners...sorry police.

Those lousy cops.

They never let up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1rBlWOCE3E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49b8EJFqqPQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1uAp69IJnk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UetPwpxlIwc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSdTQkQjxu0

Something's gotta be done.
08-31-2020, 01:23 PM
flips333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sluggo1

Bold 1…: a lot of them are just college graduates

Bold 2:…Given their importance??? Yeah, that must be true given the fact that the imply it constantly. Sounds like there is a teacher in the family.

Bold 3……We probably do attract good candidates. We need to find a way to get rid of the bad teachers that evolve from the good candidates and pay the good teachers more $$$. But you can't do that with a union/

I get tired of hearing these teachers song the same old song. The US sends more $$$ per student than any nation and we get lousy results. Didn't Baltimore have an entire graduating class (or push em out class) that could not read or do math at grade level???. But it's never the teacher's fault. Always something else……parents, dilapidated buildings, old textbooks, blah, blah, blah. Never them.

It makes it awfully hard to listen them complain about money.

That's not because we are spending money on teachers. Just look at the amount we spend on High School Athletics. We hire football coaches to teach history for ****s sake! I went to a school where they spent less per student in highschool in the chicago-land area and they had top 10 test scores... why? Well they spent their money on teachers. Now that school system has OK test scores, but they have a big pool, and a bunch of high school championships in a bunch of sports. AND they are spending more than most schools per student in the chicago land area.

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