This is why they kneel

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Originally Posted by nastynice

If I'm reading this right, you simply dont believe systemic or widespread racism exists. There are many other people like you, and because of this racism is brushed under the carpet instead of addressed. That's why we are having protests and riots today. People are sick of having this very real problem brushed off.

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I don't, at least in terms of police brutalilty.

The difference between my posts and yours are that mine involve statistical data to back them up. If my data is wrong, tell me why it's wrong or misguided. Or show me your own data. As I've shown by posting here, I'm happy to discuss racism as an issue. I just think there are far bigger problems.

I don't know what news or social media you're on but I think racism is very much discussed. Exhaustingly so.

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Originally Posted by Walter_White

I think Biden's solved his black turnout problem. A matter of circumstance though, not anything he's done.

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If blacks felt like the Democrats had their best interest in mind, they wouldnt be protesting, they would have voted for hilary. But that didnt happen.

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Originally Posted by La_bibbers

I don't, at least in terms of police brutalilty.

The difference between my posts and yours are that mine involve statistical data to back them up. If my data is wrong, tell me why it's wrong or misguided. Or show me your own data. As I've shown by posting here, I'm happy to discuss racism as an issue.

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I see. So in which terms DO you see its existence?

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Originally Posted by La_bibbers

You could also probably try to make a case that the police are just too aggressive and violent in general, regardless of race, but I'm not at all an expert enough and/or haven't seen the data to have that conversation.

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Exactly.

So even if you take away the racial aspect we still likely could need systematic change. Let's get that systematic change, if we still have racial problems to this extreme regularly killing and so on then they were right but if we don't then you were. Deal?

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Originally Posted by nastynice

I see. So in which terms DO you see its existence?

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I don't know. I'm very familiar with police and homicide/criminal data, but not much else. I can acknowledge racism and prejudices exist for sure. There was an interesting study done, I can't find it at this time, but the org/university created duplicate job applications with everything the same except the names and race, and sent them out. I forget with how much significance, but the results did show that black people were less likely to receive a callback. So of course something like that could be a major detriment when we're talking about social status. But Colin Kaepernick wasn't kneeling for that, and I don't see that kind of thing as a major source of outrage (though it'd make more sense of looting and rioting businesses).

Anyway, I don't think the riots and protests and all the focus that it's getting is helping anything though. All it's done in my mind is further divide everyone. The system works!

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Originally Posted by La_bibbers

I don't know. I'm very familiar with police and homicide/criminal data, but not much else. I can acknowledge racism and prejudices exist for sure. There was an interesting study done, I can't find it at this time, but the org/university created duplicate job applications with everything the same except the names and race, and sent them out. I forget with how much significance, but the results did show that black people were less likely to receive a callback. So of course something like that could be a major detriment when we're talking about social status. But Colin Kaepernick wasn't kneeling for that, and I don't see that kind of thing as a major source of outrage (though it'd make more sense of looting and rioting businesses).

Anyway, I don't think the riots and protests and all the focus that it's getting is helping anything though. All it's done in my mind is further divide everyone. The system works!

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A lot of the looting/rioting is not being done by the actual protesters for the cause and so on. It's been noted but the arrests last night in St. Paul were out of staters and there are rumors of more anarchist groups targeting undamaged areas tonight. Their goal likely is to hurt the message, it is sad how many fall for it and blame those actually protesting peacefully for their cause.

This one of y’all “all lives matter” folks? Weird how easily these folks take to shooting and killing...as if maybe all lives don’t really matter to them and they just want an excuse to hunt black people.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

A lot of the looting/rioting is not being done by the actual protesters for the cause and so on. It's been noted but the arrests last night in St. Paul were out of staters and there are rumors of more anarchist groups targeting undamaged areas tonight. Their goal likely is to hurt the message, it is sad how many fall for it and blame those actually protesting peacefully for their cause.

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Yeah, I mean, the media doesn't help anything. I'm always reminded of this classic Mr. Show sketch

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Originally Posted by La_bibbers

Yeah, I mean, the media doesn't help anything. I'm always reminded of this classic Mr. Show sketch

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I think our politicians and courts and so on are much more of the problem. The media is just fueled by all the chaos created by our own government.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

Exactly.

So even if you take away the racial aspect we still likely could need systematic change. Let's get that systematic change, if we still have racial problems to this extreme regularly killing and so on then they were right but if we don't then you were. Deal?

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You'll have to be more specific than just "change." What kind of change? I mean people talk about changing police training and whatnot, but I don't know what kinds of changes specifically. That's where not being a police officer or involved with law enforcement at all makes these proposals difficult. If someone wanted to tell you how to do your job differently that they hadn't ever done before, I'm sure you'd have your problems.

With that said, I don't want to overly-glorify police officers. I get they're not Jedi knights. There's good and bad eggs just like anywhere else. They're just average Joe and a lot of 'em are just hot-shot bullies. But on the other hand, they do have the spotlight on them a hell of a lot more than most people. When they make a mistake, it's a lot bigger of a deal than most jobs.

If they are being overly aggressive or trigger happy, and it's the result of protocol, I'd need to know more about said protocol. I think you'd also have to talk about increasing the merits and requirements of being an officer so you could rat out the bozos who probably have no business carrying a gun in a position of authority, which also means significantly higher compensation.

These things are really complex.

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Originally Posted by mngopher35

I think our politicians and courts and so on are much more of the problem. The media is just fueled by all the chaos created by our own government.

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That's fair.

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Originally Posted by La_bibbers

I don't, at least in terms of police brutalilty.

The difference between my posts and yours are that mine involve statistical data to back them up. If my data is wrong, tell me why it's wrong or misguided. Or show me your own data. As I've shown by posting here, I'm happy to discuss racism as an issue. I just think there are far bigger problems.

I don't know what news or social media you're on but I think racism is very much discussed. Exhaustingly so.

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I don’t think you have shared any data that actually supports your conclusions. You have shown that there are things that kill more black Americans then Police. That does not proved the black people arent treated differently by police, that BLM people are disingenuous, or that systemic racism doesn’t negatively effect the soci economic status of African Americans. Those seem to be your conclusions- sorry if I am misinterpreting


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Originally Posted by mngopher35

I think our politicians and courts and so on are much more of the problem. The media is just fueled by all the chaos created by our own government.

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The government and media are ouroboros, they feed each other, and the both feed on and feed the fear of the people.

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Originally Posted by Scoots

The government and media are ouroboros, they feed each other, and the both feed on and feed the fear of the people.

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One we vote on and the other is a corporation, we have been through this plenty but you get the difference right?

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Originally Posted by La_bibbers

I don't know. I'm very familiar with police and homicide/criminal data, but not much else. I can acknowledge racism and prejudices exist for sure. There was an interesting study done, I can't find it at this time, but the org/university created duplicate job applications with everything the same except the names and race, and sent them out. I forget with how much significance, but the results did show that black people were less likely to receive a callback. So of course something like that could be a major detriment when we're talking about social status. But Colin Kaepernick wasn't kneeling for that, and I don't see that kind of thing as a major source of outrage (though it'd make more sense of looting and rioting businesses).

Anyway, I don't think the riots and protests and all the focus that it's getting is helping anything though. All it's done in my mind is further divide everyone. The system works!

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So if it weren't for that study, and other studies like that, you wouldnt believe racism exists?

To showcase racism as a quantified number is ok to help illustrate a point. To reduce it to a quantified number is to miss the point entirely.

Yes, sometimes police treat non blacks like this, but there are clear trends. Yes some of those trends apply to socioeconomic level, but skin color doesnt tell you ones socioeconomic level, it just tells you wether someone is black or not. And being black in of itself carries many negative stereotypes. Dealing with these stereotypes on a regular basis is not an easy thing. Many times it has very real and negative consequences.


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