This is why they kneel

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Originally Posted by benny01

Yeah, I was for 6-7 years. I had a kid that was slow that worked for me and wanted to be a fireman but was nervous to join the department, so I joined with him.

Two things. First, volunteer fireman, at least all that I know, get paid. It's not a lot, and you might get in 20 hours a month(we got paid by call). We also worked in tandem with guys that were professionals. Secondly, I have no doubt that volunteers could do it(postal work), I have real concerns that volunteers would be willing to work 40+hours a week for little to nothing or that you he able to find volunteers in every part of the country they'd be needed.

That gets us to the last point I'll make which is settle down hippy, peace, love and community service doesnt put food on anyone's tables. This is one of the oddest conversations I've seen here in a while.

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To be clear I didn't say the USPS should use volunteers, and certainly not un-paid ones.

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

for one, mail is 6 days a week....an area that doesn't need paid fireman relies on volunteers because they work as needed, not 6 days a week

besides, a volunteer firefighter is wanting to be sure their family and neighborhood is cared for.....I don't much care if my neighbor's ED pills or utility bills get to him

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Yeah, to be clear I wasn't the one who suggested the USPS go to volunteer mail carriers.

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Originally Posted by flips333

And by the logic of some in this thread.... Why would anyone do anything that wasn't self serving. Profit = value...

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I love to volunteer and my profit is wholly internal. I feel good when I help others.

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

I can't do August ('cause it's over!) but I could be willing to split October with somebody

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SE south dakota, ill take November. Lol

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Originally Posted by Scoots

To be clear I didn't say the USPS should use volunteers, and certainly not un-paid ones.

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No, you didnt. We have a six way conversation going.

Seven..

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Originally Posted by SiteWolf

we were talking about why non-profits and civil servants would need to unionize and you said many who work for non-profits do it as a calling...so I simply brought civil servants into the same thought

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Civil servants are obviously different from non profit workers. Non profit workers typically do their job because of some type of calling to the cause. I’d say, Civil servants typically do their jobs because of the job security, salaries, pensions and benefits. Some, like teachers and police, have a calling as well.

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Originally Posted by benny01

No, you didnt. We have a six way conversation going.

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It's fun!

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Originally Posted by joeyc77

I want them to do whatever they desire. I’m sure people like Elon Musk are best suited where they are.

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That's a lovely non answer. But OK. If we don't pay people who are doing the primary medical work for the public the same way they pay in the private sector we will not get the top notch researchers we do in the public sector. And our health, as a nation and as a world is all better for it.

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Originally Posted by joeyc77

You are sort of making my point for me. If USPS is not going to be profitable, why does its union members believe their salaries, benefits and pensions should be in line with private corporations who are profitable?

You essentially have members who believe they are worth X. While the USPS only earns Y and Y is less than X. This is the problem with public sector unions.

How about this, why don’t you all give me an example of a public sector union without any issues. We know the issues with police. We know the issues with education. And the issues with the USPS.

I need an example in which a public sector union is better for the community as should be the purpose of civil servants.

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The underlying assumption in that is that profit as a company means one should get paid better. When the purpose of one group is not to make money the labor therein is inherently less valuable. Essentially the assumption you build your argument on is BS



An Aside... Elon Musk is not a health researcher. I certainly don't want him anywhere near me with his "brain implant." He's not the one doing the work... he's no different then a big pile of money.Of which I would take as much as I could hold.

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Originally Posted by flips333

That's a lovely non answer. But OK. If we don't pay people who are doing the primary medical work for the public the same way they pay in the private sector we will not get the top notch researchers we do in the public sector. And our health, as a nation and as a world is all better for it.



The underlying assumption in that is that profit as a company means one should get paid better. When the purpose of one group is not to make money the labor therein is inherently less valuable. Essentially the assumption you build your argument on is BS



An Aside... Elon Musk is not a health researcher. I certainly don't want him anywhere near me with his "brain implant." He's not the one doing the work... he's no different then a big pile of money.Of which I would take as much as I could hold.

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Then I suppose the private sector will come up with many discoveries and findings in the medical field.

Profit as a company means the company can afford to pay more. If someone is willing to work for the government, it should be with the understanding that the pay will be less than the private sector. Private sector bodyguards make more than police officers. Private military make more than US soldiers. Why should medical researchers be any different?

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Originally Posted by joeyc77

The USPS use to have value. The reason it’s struggling is because technology and the private sector (Amazon, FedEx, UPS, etc) have diminished that value beyond the worth of the salaries negotiated by the postal union. The union only cares about its members, as it should. Unlike a private sector company, the USPS can continue to lose money. You keep asking for proof of this. Some of this is common knowledge and I’m not going to go out of my way to help you with that.

I’ll pose the same question to you as I did to Val, what is your solution to poor and racist police officers? The current system does not allow for them to be properly reprimanded and fired if need be, until they kill someone, then we have riots. The same applies to poor teachers as well. If you need proof that union reps protect police officers or teachers who are being reprimanded, I don’t know how to help you. I’m not sure if you’re purposely being dense or not. Do we agree that it’s difficult for commanding officers or school officials to reprimand or fire poor police officers or poor teachers?

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There are multiple reasons it is struggling and many do not have anything at all to do with the actual workers, we agree. I am not arguing they can lose money lol this isn't proving anything at all about the unions being bad. This is you pointing out the USPS isn't doing great financially, not connecting any dots to that being solely due to unions and even providing better reasoning like technology/private sector getting involved. The unions should keep fighting for their employees and the USPS as a whole needs to adjust to the world around it. These are yet again separate issues and you just completely try and use association to one thing and blame the unions. It is you repeating the same strategy over and over and over.

We need to change the entire police system, standards, training, funding, responsibilities they handle as a whole. This country from politicians, the laws enforced, people within often defend these people too. I am not saying unions don't have a major part as well, they are feeding off the ones constantly defending the cops. If the entire country and politicians cared this wouldn't be an issue but they don't. As I have said before, police unions are the worst possible example and I actually agree with you that in these extreme cases some of them need to go. Abolish them along with the cops they protect if they are that bad and rebuild. Good point Joey.

I am not saying unions aren't over the top in protecting their members but that is their jobs, I am not being dense you just refuse to read what I am actually saying and address it at any step along the way. I have noted it is actually their job to defend the employees. That's what unions do. Not just public but private too. You seem incapable of providing any real evidence of your claims, keep using absurd association to, ignore reality/context laid out about what unions are for then pretend I say things I am not saying. Yes we agree as I have noted before this is true, it is also their job to protect the employees in either sector.

Please explain how any of this stuff is helpful to the BLM movement?


https://twitter.com/scootercasterny/...898357257?s=21


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Originally Posted by Brewersfan255

Please explain how any of this stuff is helpful to the BLM movement?


https://twitter.com/scootercasterny/...898357257?s=21


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It's not. Those people are doing their best to get trump reelected.

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Originally Posted by Brewersfan255

Please explain how any of this stuff is helpful to the BLM movement?


https://twitter.com/scootercasterny/...898357257?s=21


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That's insane.

A report found that 93% of BLM protests were peaceful.